Portland Bill offshore advice

[engli7]

Hello. Am planning to head west from Solent to Dartmouth & Plymouth this weekend, which will be my first time round Portland Bill. After initial research, am thinking to take the offshore passage round the Bill, at least 5 and probably 10 miles out.

We should be there on the last of the ebb (reaching the Bill around LW Dover -1). We're close to neaps. My question is, will it be safe offshore at any state of tide?

Am presuming 10m off, the race won't effect us even if we're a bit late, and we'll be dealing with "normal" Channel tides. Or would we be better even offshore trying to round in the HW Dover -1 to HW+2 (HW Portland +4 to HW -6) window?

Advice appreciated.

 

[oldbilbo]

Passing 5 miles out and in present weather conditions, you should have no significant tidal-race issues to concern you - apart from normal Channel ebb and flow.

Just enjoy it, and say 'Hi!' to the NCI guys on their shiny new VHF Ch65, or telephone....

 

[Angele]

If you can be reasonably certain about your timing, this coming weekend could be a good time to go for the inshore route. The forecasts I am looking at are suggesting reasonably light winds from the NE. If heading west, arriving at a time when the stream is setting to the west, you should have wind with tide.

If you are insistent of going the offshore route then, as OldBilbo says, 5nm South of the Bill should be fine in the forecast conditions.

 

[Lucky Duck]

I'm looking at making a similar passage this coming weekend, for the moment the forecasts look quite agreeable but unless I am missing something the tide times are less so.

 

[engli7]

Thanks oldbilbo and Angele that's cheered me up no end.

Little Grebe, am now thinking to leave Needles before 9am Sat (HW Portsmouth+5). Then will be going west on ebb till LW Dover (11ish) and be at Portland around 1300 (when race is fading). Then will be pushing a bit of tide till 1600. After that it's with us all the way to Dartmouth.

 

[Angele]

I'm looking at making a similar passage this coming weekend, for the moment the forecasts look quite agreeable but unless I am missing something the tide times are less so.

In what way?

Suggested timing for the Bill, coming from the E is HW Dover -1 to +2. On Saturday, HW Dover is 16:00. Ok, so you wouldn't get to Dartmouth until fairly late (after dark), but you would be rounding the Bill in the light. I know which I would prefer.

And it is nearer neaps than springs this coming weekend.

(Or are you talking about tides elsewhere - eg the Needles?)

 

[dom]

Fully agree with Angele and I'd even go a step further if calm; not a recommendation, just how I sometimes do it and . Bounce from the Solent to Mupe/Lulworth leaving an hr or so before HW Portsmoth (i.e. circa 2:00pm). Easy arrival in Lulworth for dinner + beers!

Depart Lulworth around HW next morning which will be around 4:00 am (currently time of civil twilight), cut inside the Shambles for the inshore route around the Isle of Portland (watch for the pots) and then head west into the western end of the races, effectively ditching the recommended NW leg up the back of the IoP. There is no need to be freaked out by the races in benign conditions and that applies to any state of neapy ides, though I may get flamed for saying that .

Whizz across Lyme Bay, prob keeping asymmetric up most of the way with an aim to hit Dartmouth around 12:00pm.

And remember 0400/1600 HW Portsmouth in moderate N/NE winds and a spot of sun is as good as it gets for heading west. Have a great sail !!

 

[BlueChip]

If you can be reasonably certain about your timing, this coming weekend could be a good time to go for the inshore route. The forecasts I am looking at are suggesting reasonably light winds from the NE. If heading west, arriving at a time when the stream is setting to the west, you should have wind with tide.

If you are insistent of going the offshore route then, as OldBilbo says, 5nm South of the Bill should be fine in the forecast conditions.

As he is coming from the Solent there is no point in taking the inshore route. If he leaves from Hurst on the first of the ebb he should be able to get round the bill before the tide turns. I've always found at 3 miles off there is no problem, but 5 miles is safer.

 

[Lucky Duck]

In what way?

Suggested timing for the Bill, coming from the E is HW Dover -1 to +2. On Saturday, HW Dover is 16:00. Ok, so you wouldn't get to Dartmouth until fairly late (after dark), but you would be rounding the Bill in the light. I know which I would prefer.

And it is nearer neaps than springs this coming weekend.

(Or are you talking about tides elsewhere - eg the Needles?)

I'm not a fan of afternoon departures and it would probably unwise to take the morning tide.

 

[BlueChip]

Fully agree with Angele and I'd even go a step further if calm; not a recommendation, just how I sometimes do it and . Bounce from the Solent to Mupe/Lulworth leaving an hr or so before HW Portsmoth (i.e. circa 2:00pm). Easy arrival in Lulworth for dinner + beers!

Depart Lulworth around HW next morning which will be around 4:00 am (currently time of civil twilight), cut inside the Shambles for the inshore route around the Isle of Portland (watch for the pots) and then head west into the western end of the races, effectively ditching the recommended NW leg up the back of the IoP. There is no need to be freaked out by the races in benign conditions and that applies to any state of neapy ides, though I may get flamed for saying that .

Whizz across Lyme Bay, prob keeping asymmetric up most of the way with an aim to hit Dartmouth around 12:00pm.

And remember 0400/1600 HW Portsmouth in moderate N/NE winds and a spot of sun is as good as it gets for heading west. Have a great sail !!

We carried our spinnaker all the way from the Needles to 5miles off Dartmouth when we lost the wind one glorious day a few years back, autohelm all the way.

 

[dom]

We carried our spinnaker all the way from the Needles to 5miles off Dartmouth when we lost the wind one glorious day a few years back, autohelm all the way.

Yes that's fantastic when that works! In which case aim to hit the Needles around 4:00am with every expectation of making Dartmouth at around 4:00 pm.

The reason I still tend to stay inshore is that the Jurassic Coast looks just fab when the sun is in the SE. It always triggers people to whip out their iPads for a spot of research, then the Bill provides a few Oohs and Ahhs as somebody inevitably comes flying up on deck after reading Cunliffe's tales of, "air filled with spume and dragons up yonder!", then a spot of offshore sailing and job done

 

[Angele]

As he is coming from the Solent there is no point in taking the inshore route.

Yes there is. If engli7 has never done it, it is an amazing experience. :encouragement:

 

[dom]

Wow! one of us has been Lakesailored, not sure who

 

[Angele]

Wow! one of us has been Lakesailored, not sure who

I'll have to remind myself of the rules, but didn't it have to be someone answering the original question by the OP....
?

 

[SimonFa]

This is as good as it gets on advice for timing Portland Bill inner and outer: http://www.sailingalmanac.com/Almanac/Navigation/portlandbill.html

I'm leaving Portland at 4am on Sunday but will be going the long way round because I'm on my own and that's getting a bit late for an inner passage transit, for me, and I don't want to do it in the dark. If I had crew and a guarantee of a crystal clear and calm night I might be tempted to go the inner route.

I get free nights there which is why I'm using it but if I didn't I would anchor in Lulworth as its just about the same distance for the outer passage.

What Dom says about the Jurassic coast. If you haven't done it then its well worth the extra time to see it all . There's no live firing this weekend so you should be able to stay close and take the St Adlhems inner passage. If Mupe Bay or Chapman's Pool are clear then they should be good anchorages this weekend. If you've got time you could even spend a couple of hours in Worbarrow Bay and go for a walk to Tyneham Village: http://www.tynehamopc.org.uk/

Don't push it to get to Lulworth too early as its likely to be full of mobos this weekend, but they usually depart around 4pm. Don't leave it too late as it may well get full of sailing.

Either way have a good sail.

 

[Angele]

Thanks oldbilbo and Angele that's cheered me up no end.

Little Grebe, am now thinking to leave Needles before 9am Sat (HW Portsmouth+5). Then will be going west on ebb till LW Dover (11ish) and be at Portland around 1300 (when race is fading). Then will be pushing a bit of tide till 1600. After that it's with us all the way to Dartmouth.

Engli7, as a new user it takes a while for your posts to appear. So, others may have missed your post #5.

The tides in Lyme Bay are generally a lot weaker than east of the Portland. So, if you can carry the favourable tide to the Bill you will be doing well.

But.....

Are you sure about your tides? Unless I'm having one of my moments, tide in the Solent is west between HW Portsmouth -1.5hrs and + 4.5hrs. So, if you are saying HW is at 04:00ish BST (which I think is correct), it will be on the ebb until about 08:30. Then flooding for the next 6 hours - i.e. foul for you.

In particular, through Hurst narrows, the flood starts during the hour of HW +5 - i.e. from 08:30.

I would want to leave rather earlier than you are suggesting. Or do as Dom suggests in post #7 and catch the afternoon tide and spend the night in Lulworth (if settled). Then continue on your way early the next morning. (From Lulworth it really is much quicker to do the inshore route).

 

[SimonFa]

Thanks oldbilbo and Angele that's cheered me up no end.

Little Grebe, am now thinking to leave Needles before 9am Sat (HW Portsmouth+5). Then will be going west on ebb till LW Dover (11ish) and be at Portland around 1300 (when race is fading). Then will be pushing a bit of tide till 1600. After that it's with us all the way to Dartmouth.

If you want to hit Portland by 1300 then you need to leave well before 9am*. Its 35 miles from the needles channel, as the crow flies, to about 5 miles off Portland. From 9am you're going to have at least 1kn of tide against you. I would aim to enter the needles channel at 4am or earlier, it will get you there a bit earlier but then you should make Dartmouth at a reasonable hour and may even find some space. If you don't want to night sail then 5am should be OK.

 

[engli7]

Hi Angele, yes have just realised it takes a while to get through the mods.

HW Portsmouth 0411. HW Dover 0331/1603.

Am thinking to be out of the Needles channel by 0930 (HWPortsmouth +5 is 0911) latest to catch last of the ebb, but probably set off an hour earlier.

Then yes, you are right, we'll be pushing tide (2 knots max) until HW Dover at 1600, but in fast-ish boat would hope to do the 35nm to the Bill in 7 hours and be off it (5-10nm off, if I have my way) around 1500, HW-1 Dover.

After 1600 the tide will be with us to Brixham (40nm), which I'd hope to reach around sunset, ie 2100.

Sound about right?

 

[jimi]

Hi Angele, yes have just realised it takes a while to get through the mods.

HW Portsmouth 0411. HW Dover 0331/1603.

Am thinking to be out of the Needles channel by 0930 (HWPortsmouth +5 is 0911) latest to catch last of the ebb, but probably set off an hour earlier.

Then yes, you are right, we'll be pushing tide (2 knots max) until HW Dover at 1600, but in fast-ish boat would hope to do the 35nm to the Bill in 7 hours and be off it (5-10nm off, if I have my way) around 1500, HW-1 Dover.

After 1600 the tide will be with us to Brixham (40nm), which I'd hope to reach around sunset, ie 2100.

Sound about right?

The tide is a lot stronger before Portland than after it, I'd rather be with the tide until Portland then push the the 0.5 knot or so in Lyme Bay than push the 2 to 3 knots between the Needles and Portland.

 

[engli7]

Thanks jimi. So you think we don't have to wait for optimum time (around HWDover) to be at Portland if we're 5-10m offshore (and close to neaps). So it's OK to set off much earlier and get to Portland pretty much on the ebb? Would that be right?