Bouba
Well-Known Member
The advantages of the portable are not having to do the installation yourself....but mostly you pay the premium for the portability....take it caravaning, camping, to a job site, picnic etc etc.
Portable power
- Thread starter zoidberg
- Start date
rotrax
Well-Known Member
A lot of 'Fred Drift' here. The OP was about ready built power stations and are they any good.
We have been repeatedly told you can do better by building, but can you? My Bluetti 180 has a screen telling me all functions, two 13 amp sockets, 12v and device charging points, two charging inputs, a cooling fan, two strong lifting handles and a small, compact well designed container.
I looked up what I paid, £540.00 direct from Bluetti UK. Delivered two days later.
Well pleased so far. With insurance companies getting twitchy about Lithium on boats, for me it is a great compromise.
We have been repeatedly told you can do better by building, but can you? My Bluetti 180 has a screen telling me all functions, two 13 amp sockets, 12v and device charging points, two charging inputs, a cooling fan, two strong lifting handles and a small, compact well designed container.
I looked up what I paid, £540.00 direct from Bluetti UK. Delivered two days later.
Well pleased so far. With insurance companies getting twitchy about Lithium on boats, for me it is a great compromise.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
If buying from the likes of Aliexpress i suspect you do run the risk of fakes, but from the quick look i had yesterday, there doesn't look to be any savings on Eve cells. In fact, they looked more expensive than buying from Fogstar.
There isn't a massive saving if you use Eve cells and a JK BMS, but you do know you have quality components. In fact, the components will be better than many of the so called "drop in" batteries and you can use correctly rated cable, well made and installed and have a top quality product. You can configure exactly how you want and have all of the servicing benefits Trident mentions.
You mention fitting into spaces well, i recently did an installation on a motorboat where the available footprint was the same as a large truck battery and nowhere to fit the chargers etc. I was able to make a box up to house the battery pack, BMS and fuse, with a backboard to take the busbars and chargers. The whole assembly can be removed in minutes by disconnecting 3 main cables and a pair of solenoid wires, a true drop in solution.
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Bouba
Well-Known Member
A boat has the potential to be a huge storage battery due to its size and ability to stash batteries everywhere….but it’s not financially the best solution…my €15 k generator setup will never pay for itself because I don’t live on the boat full time off grid.
If you can use the same setup for all your uses…home and other activities…then it is more economical even if the initial cost is greater (and in these power packs it is only marginally more expensive)
If you can use the same setup for all your uses…home and other activities…then it is more economical even if the initial cost is greater (and in these power packs it is only marginally more expensive)
Trident
Well-Known Member
If you buy EVE cells from a reputable importer and with certification then yes. I have no idea if people are faking EVE cells but I can check the provenance of the cells I buy.
You have to look at like for like - buying say EVE calls and a JK BMS from Fogstar it is cheaper than buying their battery with the same components and not much really cheaper than buying their Eco version that doesn't use the same components . I am sure Fogstar use good quality wire of the right size inside all their batteries but I KNOW that I do when I build one from cells. In the "post Battleborn world" I don't think I would recommend any brand over my own work now - it really is important that every part is properly sized and spec'd . Will Prowse was responsible for publicising the Battleborn internal issues which are dangerous but he was also responsible 5 years ago for promoting them as the best available. Without tearing down batteries from them every few months how would he know if things had changed or quality dropped? Price is not the big issue
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Surely if a family member needs the security of a permanent power supply backup ….. the supplied unit should not be removed from the premises (or from where the vulnerable person is)?
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lustyd
Well-Known Member
And how does your insurance company know the quality of your construction? Most people are not qualified professional electricians with professional insurance, so self build just isn't feasible whether financially viable or not. Fogstar ticks the box for insurance, as do portable power banks, but components sourced from AliExpress and self assembled rarely would.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Yes, increasingly with battery systems it will be the insurance challenges that need to be resolved before going pure DIY battery builds etc.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
If yours is one of the companies that are interested in the fact you have changed to LFP;
You bought a Fogstar battery and told your insurance company. All you bought was a battery, they will still ask the same questions that they would if it was a cell pack and BMS that you bought.
As far as the battery goes they will ask the make, model, type and if it's suitable for the marine environment. They will then ask if it was professionally, by who and want proof that it was. They will then ask a string of questions about how it was fitted, where it was fitted, details of the BMS, details of chargers etc etc. Just because you bought a ready assembled pack of cells with a BMS does not mean the installation is correct and that your insurance company will accept it. Did you use the correct cables, correct fuses, crimp the terminals correctly etc etc.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
I understand that Paul, but it is an order of magnitude simpler to say "I bought a drop in Fogstar battery" than defining every little detail of a build.
For a saving of £50 (assuming you place a £0 value on your time) or so I have no idea why anyone would bother unless there were very particular requirements, it's just not worth the effort.
For a saving of £50 (assuming you place a £0 value on your time) or so I have no idea why anyone would bother unless there were very particular requirements, it's just not worth the effort.
Bouba
Well-Known Member
The other thing about these power packs is that they inevitably come with multiple types of outlets...from low to high voltage....this is all extra time and money (and knowledge) to plumb in
zoidberg
Well-Known Member
That's a fair point, in a number of circumstances. As are the points made above by the likes of Trident.
One will appreciate I'm exploring options.
if a family member needs the security of a permanent power supply backup and also wants to come on the boat, on occasion, then it may be practicable to lug along the device gifted by SSE, specifically for her benefit. Or... it may prove better to utilise permanent facilities already in the boat.
Just exploring options...
lustyd
Well-Known Member
Of course, it might also be prudent to determine whether said device actually fills the supposed need (for instance emergency button backup after phone lines switch off) or if it’s a half arsed attempt to dodge liability.
The best course might be to refuse delivery and write back suggesting it’s inadequate.
The best course might be to refuse delivery and write back suggesting it’s inadequate.
zoidberg
Well-Known Member
Hey, PaulRainbow!
Where did you get yon Big Red Button?
The last I saw them, they were fitted into 617 Squadron's Vulcans.... but had covers fitted over those square brass nuts to Prevent Prying Pilots Poking Pencils and causing an 'Oh shit' moment.
Where did you get yon Big Red Button?
The last I saw them, they were fitted into 617 Squadron's Vulcans.... but had covers fitted over those square brass nuts to Prevent Prying Pilots Poking Pencils and causing an 'Oh shit' moment.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
No idea, it was already there, i think it's the ejector seat.Hey, PaulRainbow!
Where did you get yon Big Red Button?
The last I saw them, they were fitted into 617 Squadron's Vulcans.... but had covers fitted over those square brass nuts to Prevent Prying Pilots Poking Pencils and causing an 'Oh shit' moment.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
It is not "an order of magnitude simpler". They will ask of the battery the make, model and type. So it's either "A Fogstar Drift LifePO4" or an "EVE LifePO4 cell pack".
They will also ask questions of how/where it's installed, the make and model of the BMS, how it's charged, was it professionally installed, etc, etc. These questions will be asked irrespective of the make of battery. The installation of the Fogstar battery is no different to the installation of the EVE cell pack, both need wiring, fuse, charger, DC-DC charger, isolators etc. If the insurance company don't like DIY installs they will not accept a DIY install of either battery.
It is not a £50 saving. A 300Ah Fogstar Drift is £700, a set of 4 x 314Ah EVE cells and a JK BMS is £390
lustyd
Well-Known Member
How much for the battery enclosure, heat pad, cabling, copper connectors, crimps etc. plus enough of your time to build it professionally? What about that 10 year warranty?
Your example above made a lot of sense as it was a custom requirement, and I agree there are circumstances where it might make sense. That £700 is the highest those batteries have been for a very long time too, I’d expect them to drop again shortly.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Clutching at straws now. Enclosure £50, heat pads about £10, how much for two cable about 6" long?, busbars come with the cells, 4 crimps £1 Plenty of change out of the £10 saving above.
As part of my installations i'm supplying the cells assembled, BMS connected and setup, cells balanced, ready to fit for £550, a saving of £150
lustyd
Well-Known Member
It’s not clutching at straws, it’s being realistic about the small savings.
What warranty are you offering? Is it the same 10 years?
What warranty are you offering? Is it the same 10 years?
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
If you do it yourself it's hardly small savings, it's not the £50 you claimed, it's £310, less about £60 for the housing etc, if you really needed one. Every installation i've done, the smaller size of the cell pack is a benefit.
For a pro install it's still a £150 saving.
If you prefer whatever it is you bought, that's fine. Did you notify your insurance ?