Port Police & Cruising Tax in Greece

[charles_reed]

The previous thread became somewhat confrontational so I'm restarting, what I hope will be a reasoned summary of what appears to be the situation.

No such thing as cruising tax for EC yachts - but every boat has to have a DEKPA, costing €30, which has to be replaced when the 60 entry blanks are filled in.
For boats with a permanaent Greek mooring, their "light & harbour dues" are included in the mooring fee - others will have to pay these fees as they go along.
Non-EC boats do have to have a Transit Log, I believe this costs €80 plus a length-proportional tax and is current for 90 days.

According to the official Greek websites the DEKPA has to be stamped at every entrance and exit to a Greek port - a waiver is exercised for boats of less than 10m which have to have theirs stamped every 30 days. (I've had to rely on another's translation of the Maritime website which is only in Greek, but the Tourism site states this in pretty plain English).

Implementation of this cumbersome ruling is sensibly modified by Port Police in each port. A few are rigorous in their implementation, many observe the 30-day rule for all yachts, and some are amiably disinterested in doing any stamping.

All this could be changed overnight, due to the legislative ferment of the Greek Parliament, (pity the poor Port Police).

All this against the background of fairly overcrowded waters and (no doubt) some NIMBY Greek natives, who resent being crowded out of their own waters.

My interest in this is that it is my next year's destination.

 

[orizaba]

glad you restarted it as it became hard to make any sense of what was going on.
a quick question,we are under 10m so we have to go to a marina,book in pay the dekpa ,if we then left the marina i assume we book out with the police as per usual,if we then cruised anchored of for say 14 days does this cause a problem because we have logged out of the area(a),while we are at anchor
b if we renter the marina ie proof of where we have been etc

 

[LadyJessie]

I sincerely apologize if I contributed to making that thread too confrontational. It is just that it is difficult to not react if your long years of experience are considered to not be real.

Your summary is very good and to the point. You picked up the important points very well.

Let me just underline on the getting stamps issue: use the 30 day rule west of Naxos, but once you get east of this line make sure that you can show reasonable effort to get one every day. If you cannot (at anchor in a bay or in a small harbour without Port Police) then make sure you have a good story and a logbook to back it up. The Port Police can and will ask you for your logbook. Once you get to Kos/Symi/Nisoros/Tilos/Rhodes, be very sure that you have a stamp everyday or a watertight story why you don't. Then you will probably be OK.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

I am sorry ,but I still do not agree.i have been to all the places mentioned and many more, i think its all to do with attitude.I spent weeks in Rhodes harbour on the right as you enter.by the very large cat and did not once have a port policeman bother me .will agree that since Kiricolis has taken over kos harbour there are problems but only financial as they want to charge you Kos marina prices on the town quay .cheers bobt

 

[charles_reed]

From reports on another website it would appear that the "difficult" port police are not necessarily on the E side of Greece, even though this is clearly your experience.

It appears that wherever the Greeks perceive "unfriendly" neighbours, their port police are more pro-active.

The civilised approach to cruisers is, it appears, a manifestation of common-sense and good-nature.
Have a top-down purge from Athens and you could, I suspect, find some uncomfortable changes overnight.

I've not been to Greece, just trying to get the ducks lined up to know what to expect.

PS Not so much confrontational as exasperated, having had my discussions with Jim on other subjects, in the past, I know the feeling well.

 

[charles_reed]

Wouldn't disagree with you, see the post above.

The only perception that seems to meet all the observations which I'm sure are proferred in good faith.

The problem of setting up as a guru is that someone, somewhere, will always be trying to prove you're wrong, therefore, I claim to only be an interested onlooker.

 

[charles_reed]

As above 2 postings wouldn't like to comment, BUT

if you're under 10m you'll probably not be hassled for daily stamps AND

be prepared for anything -

'cos it was an UK ex- Customs and Excise bod who used to drive the Scillies launch, commented "Greece is a police state", the remark not being totally derogatory.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Charles, nice summary, just one error. Hope its correction doesn't exasperate you!

Current practice is that at less than 10m and you don't have to check in or out at all unless you are asked to do so.

Over 10m the 30 day rule applies, unless you are specifically asked to check in, in which case you should do so.

I've just conducted a survey of CA yachts which have cruised Greece over the last 2 years and so far have received some 40 replies. Several of these have cruised Turkey / Greece / Turkey. You may have seen some of the results if you use Mednet.

Reports came from cruising experiences in all areas of Greece. All replies confirm that the new practice (above) is the norm. Several confirm that occasionally a local office/official points out where a yacht has acted outside the regulations and advises how to 'correct' their behaviour.

There appears to be no 'area' pattern to these exceptions (which was a surprise) except that the Ionian approach is very casual indeed. There are no reports of threats to impound/fine - although some have commented that with language and understanding barriers it is possible to perceive the advised corrections as threats.

So far there has been no proposal to correct the advice on my web site, although a couple of the replies have commented that the picture I paint is unduly pessimistic.

So, it does seem that there has been a major improvement in the application of the port police regulations over the last two years compared to earlier years.

 

[charles_reed]

I merely repeated the published regulation on the two official Greek websites where any mention of yachts occurs.

These state that EC vessels of less than 10m are officially required to have their DEKPA stamped every 30 days. All other vessels have to be stamped in each port, in and out, on every movement.

This requirement is honoured more in its breach than observance, hurrah for commonsense. Nevertheless it appears to be Greek law (perhaps the sites are out-of-date) but various officials have their own interpretation of this unduly onerous statutory requirement, which is reflected in the varying experiences and opinions published.

We can agree, no tax on EC yachts, DEKPA required, transit log and lotsa levies on non-EC flagged boats (God help you if you're Turkish-flagged), even if many ignore/avoid them.

The Hellenes, after all, have a 3000 year-old tradition of the cunning little man outwitting the brute power (now the State) of the Immortals.

 

[Davy_S]

Keep away Charles! its awful, its hot, the sea is too turquoise, its too bright man.
You will be arrested and your boat impounded, plus going by the firearms thread, there are lots heading this way with AK47s, 9mm pistols, hunting rifles and knives (its the pirates you see) Plus the Greeks buy you drinks, a cunning plan to get you drunk!
I beleive Spain is very good. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[steve_cronin]

Charles,

Jim has been researching this on the CA Med Section members forum for some time now and a good few of us have put in our very recent personal experiences> I would take his findings as a difinitive reference work if I were you.

My personal experience is of not having gotten a stamp since Mourtos last October with a large gap prior to that which was not commented upon at that time and an increasing indifference to private yachts in the Ionian this year.

When I had to report, re an incident with a dodgily registered "jersey" motoryacht to the PP in Katokolon last year an officer there explained the Greek reasoning that although you, as a citizen of an EU member state have "right of free circulation", your boat does NOT (PP fighting to justify their existance IMO). She went on to outline the "official" procedure as follows:-

On arrival from EU, report to PP within one hour for form filling, harbour dues if applicable and entry stamp.

On departure, report at least two hours prior to sailing for more form filling and exit formalities. By the expression in her voice and her general attitude, it was obvious that this is rarely insisted upon and she certainly didn't in our case. in fact I don't know anyone who has actually gone through this double visit performance.

Dimitri, the manager at Gouvia Marina, did, last year put signs up all over the place informing berth holders of the necessity of getting your DEKPA stamped every 30 days even if the boat didn't move. Difficult, if, like me you live away. Those signs have gone now.

When we were in the Aegean, we were aware that charter managers in particular were near to manic about instilling conformity into their clients and went in obvious fear of the "dreaded PP".

It seems to me that Greece, being a maritime nation just cannot contemplate thousands of boats circulating in it's waters without some sort of regulatory system being in place. However, having said that, I wonder how far our data goes from the curled pages of the carbon copybooks we all see strewn arond most small PP offices in the outer islands and ports.

Steve Cronin

 

[LadyJessie]

[ QUOTE ]
I spent weeks in Rhodes harbour on the right as you enter.by the very large cat and did not once have a port policeman bother me

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, let me try to further summarize a messy subject: you have two choices; disregard the rules or try to follow them. Rtboss1 follows the "Disregard The Rules And See If They Can Catch Me Strategy". It is a very popular strategy and fairly successful. The chances of being found out by the PP is very small, they hardly ever move outside of their offices. But it assumes two things; you are prepared to deal with the unpleasantness when found and you will never leave Greece for the rest of your life. You don't want to try to check out and the PP in front of you says "so Mr. rtboss1, I see that you have been in Greece for (insert your length of time) but never moored once. Please explain to me how that is possible.....". I've been there; it was not nice.

On a personal note to rtboss1; you can get away with your strategy in most places. However, I would very strongly advise against this in Rhodes. That is one of the few places where the PP actually walk the harbour and take note of boat names. It seems from your description that you are on the west side of Mandraki harbour. That probably means that you can see the PP office from your boat. And they can see you.... Do yourself a favour and walk up there, tell them you just arrived and get your stamps. And while you are there; why don't you ask them what the rules are and you can report back to us in real time! Day fresh update on what the PP rules really are!

 

[ITH]

Charles; can you tell me what is the 'official' definition of a 10m boat in this context - waterline or overall? Reason for asking is that we have a Nauticat 35 (waterline 9.50m and overall 10.65m) and wonder how we stand in the 30-day rule.

 

[charles_reed]

Ian,

I'm no expert, but would suggest they'll use LOA.

However, as many will testify, most port police ignore the stamping for everyone, not just 10m boats.

 

[charles_reed]

I\'ll take your word for it

but still go there to satisfy myself.

Do I take it you're currently incarcerated, your boat impounded, riddled with holes from manic target practice with semi-auto assault weapons?

 

[Davy_S]

Re: I\'ll take your word for it

I was one of the lucky ones! On a serious note though, my little mobo is just under 7mtrs, I pay my mooring fee for six months and no one bothers me because of the size. Friends out here in the Ionian have never been asked for anything at all, their yachts up to 50ft in length. Cannot comment on areas outside the Ionian.
The only dealings I have had with the port police (Sami) was to do with my boat fishing licence, the police were pleasant and polite and gave me a coffee.
I however do think that the manner in which visiting yachtsmen aproach the police helps, it does no harm to smile ,be polite and most of all patient.
I am sure you will enjoy Greece.

 

[jimbaerselman]

[ QUOTE ]
the 'official' definition of a 10m boat in this context

[/ QUOTE ] The LOA as published in your registration document.

 

[ostra4]

We keep our boat on Lefkas and have been asked for documentation in Lefkas itself,Nidri several times but no where else .When asked PP wanted insurance,cruising permit(obtained after hours in smoke filled lefkas offices!!) and also ICC in Lefkas .i smile ,act humbly and am very patient whilst keeping my wife on her lead as she tends to get more cross than me . If you take a 50 euro note to pay an 8 euro charge they invariably dont have any change and cant be bothered to go and find some .
Re the books of curled up papers and duplicate books - who knows what happens to them but they do have computers and lots of power if they feel like being nasy . boat is Moody 346 .

 

[Glyka]

[ QUOTE ]
and (no doubt) some NIMBY Greek natives, who resent being crowded out of their own waters

[/ QUOTE ]
Never said "get out of Greece you bl**dy foreigner" actually /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Just rejected repeated advice on how we should compete with Turkish marinas as this is a non-issue.

 

[LadyJessie]

Re: I\'ll take your word for it

[ QUOTE ]
Friends out here in the Ionian have never been asked for anything at all, their yachts up to 50ft in length.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, that is exactly my experience as well. The Ionian seems to be totally free of PP problems. It is once you get into the Gulf of Patrai and go further east that your problems start.