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BelleSerene

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I made the silly mistake the other day of buying a copy of Sailing Today from the news stand. Don't ask - I honestly can't remember why - I know there's no excuse for it.

Anyway, I was amazed to read what ST was passing for sound advice in an article by some instructor, about warping your boat round on a mooring and then tying up again. It advocated a bowline to a figure of eight around a bow cleat - and then *the same line* back to amidships as a spring. And the same arrangement at the stern: stern to pontoon cleat, figure of eight and carry on knitting forward to tie it off amidships. All complete with photos of the finished pontoon embroidery and a description of the author's OXO method: one loop all the way round the cleat, figure of eight on the cleat and a further loop all the way round it, before shooting the warp off in the direction of your next deck cleat.

Would fellow forumites say:
(a) "that's ridiculous. Your boat'll be secure but a bugger to move when you want to. For God's sake, any instructor not showing people that one line for one job is best for all purposes should be stripped of his ticket"
(b) "what's wrong with that?"
(c) "it's really a subjective matter and it would be equally fine for an RYA instructor to publish an article explaining to newbies that you should take your mooring warps to a round turn and two half hitches around the masts of the fore and aft yachts on the pontoon if he thinks that system has merits"
 
b and c

I have often used a single spring (my properly long strops for tidal walls) to make off the fore and aft and bring back to the centre cleat to act as springs.

I am not going to empty my rope locker to tie up to a pontoon.
 
I have an eclectic method of securing my boat which I have been forcefully told by a YM Ocean Instructor is “incorrect”. I use it when in my own mooring and in other locations when I am sure that it does not interfere with other boats lines. So I am in the c) camp as long as the method is safe, adequate and reliable. I do not ascribe to dogmatically following the book method for such things. I might add that my method makes leaving a mooring easier, rather than more difficult.
 
Definitely one line to one job.

Also not keen on the amidship cleats. I prefer springs to run the full length.
 
BelleSerene said:
Would fellow forumites say:
(a) "that's ridiculous. Your boat'll be secure but a bugger to move when you want to. For God's sake, any instructor not showing people that one line for one job is best for all purposes should be stripped of his ticket"
(b) "what's wrong with that?"
(c) "it's really a subjective matter and it would be equally fine for an RYA instructor to publish an article explaining to newbies that you should take your mooring warps to a round turn and two half hitches around the masts of the fore and aft yachts on the pontoon if he thinks that system has merits"
Click to expand...

(b) and (c). Also

(d) Aren't there more important things to worry about than how other people choose to tie up their boats?
 
BelleSerene said:
Would fellow forumites say:
(a) "that's ridiculous. Your boat'll be secure but a bugger to move when you want to. For God's sake, any instructor not showing people that one line for one job is best for all purposes should be stripped of his ticket"
(b) "what's wrong with that?"
(c) "it's really a subjective matter and it would be equally fine for an RYA instructor to publish an article explaining to newbies that you should take your mooring warps to a round turn and two half hitches around the masts of the fore and aft yachts on the pontoon if he thinks that system has merits"
Click to expand...

(d) Whatever the skipper wants - being able to dictate the *precise* method is one of the perks of the job.

I learned from a friend[0] who likes light-lines OXO'd to the pontoon, then replaced with heavy lines with big (out-of shore-side reach) bowlines (with a turn round the cleat upright) and OXOs onboard - specifics for the way springs go to windlass & primary winch.

Other skippers like midships lines to stop the boat, etc.

First time out (If I can't remember how we were tied up originally) I'll stop the boat from drifting away, then ask.

On *my* boat, well, it gets done *my* way.
( I use colour-coded bow/stern lines & springs, and make them adjustable from on board and even cheese them on deck sometimes 'cos I'm borderline OCD ;-)

For extra fun - on a fully crewed boat - practice the "flick bowline"[1] as you saunter down the pontoon and drop a loop on a cleat and shout "Made!" to onboard crew to take up the slack ;-)

When rafting, or passing a line ashore, *always* pass a bowline or soft eye, so you retain control.

[0] 'tis fun when we raft on *his* anchor, and I insist that *he's* the pontoon (bigger boat), so we do the lines *my* way ;-)
[1] Hard to describe, but if you have a loop with towards-standing-end in your left hand and a bit of working end in your right hand, you can flick the working end under-towards-you-then-over whilst pushing right-hand bight towards and through left-hand bight, then pull it away with left hand to leave an upside-down bowline.
 
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If it works it's OK

I'm in the if the boat's still there then it was OK.

This obviously depends on the boat, the mooring, nearby hazards, weather and tide.

But please don't use a bowline to tie up a boat - it can't be undone under tension - round turn and two half hitches is the way to go, and as it incorporates a round turn, it will minimise chafe.

Best initial mooring technique (at least for the stern line) is to simply drop a loop of warp over the aft pontoon cleat. It allows you to instruct the helmsman or, if singlehanded, secure the stern whilst SWMBO steps gracefully off amidships to do the bow line. After a few practices, it's a doddle.
 
Ubergeekian said:
(b) and (c). Also

(d) Aren't there more important things to worry about than how other people choose to tie up their boats?
Click to expand...

For clarification: absolutely. The question is about what trained instructors should be teaching newbies, not what an experienced, competent person should do on his own yacht.
 
So much depends on where the dock cleats are in relation to the boat. Using one line on a midships cleat for springs should be fine although I often double up if staying for any length of time.
The key thing I like to teach is how to secure to the dock cleats. Preferably the bitter end so that all the spare string is on the boat not tripping up passers by. I also use a round turn and two half hitches if at all possible as you can still undo the knot when under tension - useful when taking off lines especially to re rig them as slip lines when leaving. A bowline is OK but you need slack to undo it.
However I don't really believe there is a 'right way' diferent size boats, different cleat arrangements, different widn and tide can all change the need.
 
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BelleSerene said:
For clarification: absolutely. The question is about what trained instructors should be teaching newbies, not what an experienced, competent person should do on his own yacht.
Click to expand...

"This way works fine and only needs a couple of ropes. Other people may want to do it differently."

I don't honestly think it's anything to get worked up over.
 
This brings to mind when I was in H.M.Forces. The instructer started off by saying "do as I say and not as I do".
I am sure that you will all remember when you were having driving lessons and once you had passed your test..WELL we all do drive how we feel comfortable.

I think it is the same for mooring warps. We do it how it suitd us each of us to our own, allthough I would think most of us do it pretty much the same.

Fair winds

Peter
 
I think that the main point behind the 'one rope one job' is that it is the only way by which all the spare rope can be kept on board. Not a major point when securing to a pontoon (except that it removes trip hazards) but very necessary when against a tidal wall.

Be wary of centre cleats. Can be very useful, but on several occasions I have seen boats 'secured' with a bow spring and a centre cleat spring, both leading aft to the pontoon. Two springs, so it must be alright, OK?

And the real classic, seen on another boat, of two springs, one lead from the bow cleat, outside everything, then back in to the stern cleat. The other spring joined two cleats on the pontoon! What really hurt, though, was that no one had rigged any breast ropes! Fortunately the wind was blowing the boat on to the pontoon; friction in the fenders was all that was holding the boat.
 
One of the dangers of using one line to do two jobs is the risk of the line jamming. For example a line that starts on the pontoon by the bow, is made up on the midships cleat then led from there to a cleat on the pontoon near the stern to act as both fore & aft springs.

The load on a cleat should come from the bottom with the figure 8 or OXO turns on top. If you put a load on the top it becomes impossible to release it under load. That is however reasonable if you simply untie the line in reverse before attempting to leave or move.

I always single up to bow & stern breast ropes rigged to slip before departing. Fortunately I don't need to mess with springing off the bow or stern.
 
It's all very well having your own method on your own boat, but what about when chartering abroad? The number, length, diameter, condition etc of warps is so varied one needs to be adaptable, so no one method can be utilised. Trying to tie up with 3 x 10ft chafed warps that are as stiff as Q. Victoria takes imagination!
 
I follow the "One Job" "One Rope" mantra...

I tie up one boat... I use one rope.

seemples.

;)
 
I have one of Tom Cunliffe's books where he asserts that the springs and breast lines should be parallel.
Never understood that!
 
lw395 said:
I have one of Tom Cunliffe's books where he asserts that the springs and breast lines should be parallel.
Never understood that!
Click to expand...

I'm sure T C refers to Springs and Bow/stern lines, not breast-ropes. Consider a parallel ruler; one side is the quay, the other the boat as the tide rises and falls.
You would have to be forever adjusting breast-ropes and could not leave the boat. Or sleep.
 
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