Poled out headsail, jaw up or jaw down at the end of the pole?

tudorsailor

tudorsailor

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I have a Yankee rather than a Genoa. I am planning to experiment with poling out the headsail. I will have a separate sheet to the clew rather than using the normal sheet.

My question is whether I should have the jaw facing up or down. Some experts say that the jaw should face down so the sheet can "drop out" when the jaw is opened. However, some other experts say that when the wind gets up, the clew rises and so the sheet will not "drop out", and it is better to have the jaw facing upwards.

What does the committee recommend?

Thanks

TudorSailor
 
On my boat jaw up to allow the pole to drop off the sheet. My pole with the genoa has no tendency to rise. (Different with spinnaker.)
 
Assuming that on a boat your size you will need to have a pole uphaul in order to get the pole into position, it would be logical to have it with the jaws DOWN. If you need to release the pole from the sheet just raise the pole uphaul enough to lift it above clew height, whatever that is, and pull the trigger.
(It is of course compulsory for whoever is controlling the pole uphaul to release it and drop the pole onto the foredeck crew at least once.....)
 
Jaws up.

Good idea to use the extra sheet on the polled-out side. And rig a guy, uphaul and downhaul on the pole - so it just stays in place if you decide to gibe, reef, drop the sail, tack, crash stop or anything else. In practice you won't need to get the sheet out of the jaw - just let it go slack, ready to use again, and take up on the other sheet if you need to.

The poled-out sheet can be run further aft than the normal sheet.

Don't forget the preventer, and your downwind rig is 'bullet-proof'.
 
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I always remember the rule that you have the jaws one way for a poled out genoa and the jaws the opposite way for a spinnaker.

The problem is that I can never remember which way is which.

I believe that the difference is because spinnaker guys exert an upward pull whereas genoa sheets exert a downward pull ..... but that doesn't help me. :(

I think I tend to go with the jaw opening facing downwards for the genoa sheet so I can drop it quickly by opening the jaws if I need to ..... but it probably depends upon whether there is an "R" in the month.

Richard
 
I use a whisker pole on my genoa jaws down, because when I rig it I clip onto a rope loop on the sail thimble first, which then locks the pole under the sail, push out the pole with my back to the mast, then pull the pole jaw down onto a hard ring on the mast.
Taking off is reverse process, open jaw at mast and use palm of other hand to push pole up and forward of the mast, then pull pole and sail in and release with quick release cord.
I use the slack sheet as a downhaul, I don't need an uphaul.
 
There is a part of my memory that says someone once told me to set the pole jaws down, so that the sheet can just drop out, but on the boat I usually sail on the attachments for uphaul and downhaul make it awkward to set it that way. But as Barnacle Bill says, the beauty of the using the extra sheet, and I use a spinnaker sheet so it is nice and long, means that in extremis you don't have to release it from the jaws, you just leave one loose turn on the winch and take in on the jib sheet. You can then tidy up at leisure later. John Goode's poling out stetch shows the pole in in its natural state, with jaws facing up.
 
For spinnaker work on a boat of any size the jaws must be facing upwards or you will not be able to release the guy/sheets. If you have the jaws facing down and you attempt to lift the end of the pole to free it the sheets will just rise with it - disaster.

For a poled out headsail it is not quite so critical but nevertherless if there is much wind the pole is generally being used to hold the clew of the sail down as well as out. The downwards component of force helps to keep the leach from twisting and spilling wind. If that is the way the sail is operating the pole should again have its jaws facing upwards for the same reasons as above however the consequences of having them facing downwards are usually much less severe than with a spinnaker and in light winds it may be more convenient to have them facing down as in those conditions the sheets will just drop out when the jaws are opened.
 
I'd always go jaws up. If you're jaws up, and you open the jaws and the sheet doesn't come out, then you just lower the pole up until it does.

But to be honest, it's probably not a big deal, since the OP has done the sensible thing and is using a second sheet, so he's extremely unlikely to ever have a problem that can't be resolved by swapping back to the regular sheet and then dealing with the issue without any load in the sheet.
And if you decide not to do that, and have a problem, just roll the jib up.
 
PeterR said:
For a poled out headsail it is not quite so critical but nevertherless if there is much wind the pole is generally being used to hold the clew of the sail down as well as out. The downwards component of force helps to keep the leach from twisting and spilling wind.
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You are advocating that the vertical force of the sail act against the piston on a 'G' pole end, not the crook?
 
PeterR said:
For spinnaker work on a boat of any size the jaws must be facing upwards or you will not be able to release the guy/sheets. If you have the jaws facing down and you attempt to lift the end of the pole to free it the sheets will just rise with it - disaster.

For a poled out headsail it is not quite so critical but nevertherless if there is much wind the pole is generally being used to hold the clew of the sail down as well as out. The downwards component of force helps to keep the leach from twisting and spilling wind. If that is the way the sail is operating the pole should again have its jaws facing upwards for the same reasons as above however the consequences of having them facing downwards are usually much less severe than with a spinnaker and in light winds it may be more convenient to have them facing down as in those conditions the sheets will just drop out when the jaws are opened.
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Thanks for that Peter. I thought I had read the spinnaker / genoa "opposite jaws rule" years ago but I don't use either often enough for the rule to hang around in my head!

Richard
 
Jaws down because on my last boat the ring on the mast was a bit tight. If the pole dropped so the end went over the side the hook of the pole formed a shoulder & if it jammed rather than move through it pulled on the ring
 
Up for sure.

Brace pole with uphaul, downhaul and guy. Extra sheet so you can lead it on the quarter somewhere and Roberts yer fathers sibling.

Used it plenty on long downwind legs, especially transat.

Just remember to watch for chafe and Hey Presto! Rum and Ting time.

(works even if your only going for an hour or so too!!)
 
mainsail1 said:
My vote is for Jaws up. Too many opportunities for jams the other way around.
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So is mine. Much depends on the inboard end fitting though. If, as on our boat, it clips onto a ring on a track on the front of the mast, it should be jaws up. If attached jaws down and the pole for some reason goes high and gets jammed, it would be impossible to get it out of the ring if jaws down.
 
Jaws down, because the inboard end is permanently mounted on the mast, and it would be too much fiddle to turn it round between using genoa and spinnaker.

In any case, I don't much like the idea of releasing the pole suddenly from the sheet and then have it swing wildly across the foredeck. I usually furl the genoa prior to getting the pole down, which brings the pole forward, best position for an easy and controlled lowering, then release its halyard (uphaul) to let it slide down the sheet. A tug on a lazy guy tied to the pole starts it if gravity isn't sufficient.
 
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Woodlouse said:
Jaws up because the trip line comes out of the underside of most poles and therefore won't work right if the other way up.
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That's definitive on some boats!
Otherwise, I'm with Flaming, it should not be critical and which is best depends on how the angles work out on a particular boat.
On some boats with less than indestructible fittings, you don't want a huge load on the plunger, so if the pole is deflecting the sheet a lot it can be best done by the fixed part of the jaw not the opening plunger.
In general I would say open side up and move the sheet forward to make it pull down in the pole end a little.
 
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