Plotters and auto helm: What are your prefered brands?

[Tryweryn]

Hi
I need to buy a new plotter and auto-helm. Anyone recommend any particular brands? The one in it is very old it is for a Moody 30. I would like it to link together with radar and AIS etc

 

[pvb]

To be certain it all works together, it's better to get the autopilot and plotter from the same manufacturer. Frankly, there's not much to choose between them - go for the make which you feel is most user-friendly at a reasonable price.

 

[john_morris_uk]

To be certain it all works together, it's better to get the autopilot and plotter from the same manufacturer. Frankly, there's not much to choose between them - go for the make which you feel is most user-friendly at a reasonable price.

For me, having the auto helm 'talking' to the plotter is very low on my priorities. I don't mind the waypoint alarm going off to suggest we change course but I like to assess the situation and decide how we are going to make best progress on the next leg without the autopilot wanting me to just acknowledge and put the boat into the course it thinks we ought to be sailing.

One final thought; might I suggest you buy an auto helm that is rated (much?) larger than the minimum recommended by the manufacturer? You won't regret it when you are struggling to put a reef in and you are light on crew, or perhaps want the boat steered downwind in a quartering sea. Our autopilot has a turn gyro as well as a flux gate compass and it 'learns' the sea conditions and steers the boat VERY well...

 

[superheat6k]

The plotter will need two way communication capability to talk out to the VHF for DSC position data normally at low speed (e.g. 4800 baud), and receive AIS data at high speed (e.g. 38,000 baud), so make sure you get one with two comms channels - Not Lowrance HDS, but Garmin GPSMAP will do this. I have the 750 and it is great, and can overlay a compatible Garmin Radar and properly supports the NMEA2000 protocol. The 751 is the current model, but you might still be able to find a new 750 at a decent price (around £600). Be aware the Garmin doesn't have a VGA (video) input which for me is its only downside.

My plotter can talk to my Autohelm ST6000 via NMEA0183, but I personally don't like track mode, as the boat is forced to maintain too rigid a ground track to the next waypoint, instead I prefer to set the course by observing the course to steer, and then adjusting the heading myself it if the cross track error increases, but without worrying unduly about having a XTE. I also believe this makes me concentrate more on what is going on around me, as there is a limit to how much the steering should be automated - more than one boat has had serious autohelm assisted collisions, not least when they run into the waypoint target, whilst the skipper is making a cup of tea perhaps.

I understand Raymarine modern kit uses Seatalk N, which is compatible with but not fully NMEA2000 compliant, because it allows multiple drop links from the backbone, whereas NMEA2K only allows a single device on any drop link. Installing NMEA2K backbone is easy, and Garmin offer an excellent starter kit with a backbone cable, terminations and power supply drop link. If all the kit you use is fully NMEA2K compliant it should all link up and work perfectly well, but it has to carry the specific NMEA logo to state it is fully compliant.

For the VHF have a dual function set with AIS means only one aerial and no splitter. I have a Furuno Radio Ocean RO4800 which at £200 is a steal, and it works very well with the Garmin, but the NMEA0183 wiring i a bit fiddly. I do have connection diagrams for my interface between the Garmin, VHF and Seatalk NMEA0183 output. I haven't set up the VHF output for DSC emergency position data back into the Garmin at lo speed.

So if I were you I would set down your budget then decide from there how you want to spend it. If you want professional help then David at Hudson Marine offers good service and on line sales support.

 

[Marsupial]

WOW!!

I go sailing!

 

[pvb]

For me, having the auto helm 'talking' to the plotter is very low on my priorities.

I'd agree, it's at the bottom of my list of priorities, but the OP did say he wanted to "link together".

 

[superheat6k]

WOW!!

I go sailing!

Nothing useful to contribute to help the OP then ?

 

[doug748]

Do you have a tiller?

I have a TP32 stick and a Raymarine SPX5, built in job, on a similar sized boat. The SPX5 is discontinued now but you can see a similar capacity replacement on the MES site for about £1000, the TP32 comes in at about £500.

The Raymarine was fitted last season but never worked properly, the lot had to be removed to go back to Raymarine at the end of the season. A lot of extra work. Sods law prevailed and it was discovered that the ram unit was out of spec, a new one was supplied and now seems to be working ok. Raymarine handled it pretty well and I have an extended guarantee.

The TP32 works ok, it is generally said that it has better waterproofing than the Raymarine sticks units. Water got into mine but the sensitive electronics are in their own cocoon so it still seems fine. I would second John Morris and not consider anything smaller for your boat. It will still struggle in fresh conditions, I have not tested the SPX5 too much yet but it is quicker and promises to be more powerful.

I know nothing of interfacing and am always a bit shirty about paying for such features which I don't use.

 

[Marsupial]

Nothing useful to contribute to help the OP then ?

YES! SAVE YOUR MONEY ! GO SAILING!

or

Buy an X BOX and stay at home

SIMPLES!

PS Only a complete moron plots a waypoint on a solid object.

 

[Tryweryn]

Thanks for the good info. Its a Moody 33 with a wheel.
At present it has a Garmin system marine network but the plotters are old 3006c and 3010c in the cockpit and i cant get the maps. The autohelm is so old now as well.
1./Are the raymarine maps used as good as the garmin ones?
2./ Everything is interlinked at present on the boat and looking at the cable connection that goes into the deck plotter (three ports at back NEM, network and video) the NEM port is bigger than a NMEA0183 and seems to have twice as many pin holes. Any idea what type of connection that is?

I was thinking about switching to raymarine as it is cheaper for the autohelm etc. If the maps are as good as garmin that is.
3./ If I did use raymarine at present the setup has AIS, radar and a DSC radio. I take it I could still use these with Raymarine plotters and autohelm?

I agree the boat following a course is not something to rely on but it is useful to have.

 

[pvb]

At present it has a Garmin system marine network but the plotters are old 3006c and 3010c in the cockpit and i cant get the maps.

I don't understand - the 3006C/3010C take BlueChart g2 map cartridges, which are easily available.

 

[prv]

the NEM port is bigger than a NMEA0183 and seems to have twice as many pin holes.

There's no such thing as an NMEA 0183 socket.

Pete

 

[TonyBuckley]

Thanks for the good info. Its a Moody 33 with a wheel.
At present it has a Garmin system marine network but the plotters are old 3006c and 3010c in the cockpit and i cant get the maps. The autohelm is so old now as well.
1./Are the raymarine maps used as good as the garmin ones?
2./ Everything is interlinked at present on the boat and looking at the cable connection that goes into the deck plotter (three ports at back NEM, network and video) the NEM port is bigger than a NMEA0183 and seems to have twice as many pin holes. Any idea what type of connection that is?

I was thinking about switching to raymarine as it is cheaper for the autohelm etc. If the maps are as good as garmin that is.
3./ If I did use raymarine at present the setup has AIS, radar and a DSC radio. I take it I could still use these with Raymarine plotters and autohelm?

I agree the boat following a course is not something to rely on but it is useful to have.

https://www.marinestore.nl/download...3006C&3010 Installation Instructions (UK).pdf

That tells you what all the 'holes' are for.

Still a good bit of kit.

 

[superheat6k]

PS Only a complete moron plots a waypoint on a solid object.

Indeed, but many seem to forget navigation marks are held in place by a chain and can therefore move in a circle quite a few metres wide - a certain Lt C***e W**ds RN will never forget that when he managed to run over the West Shambles cardinal buoy off Portland Bill on the Type 42 HMS Southampton in 1984, indeed due to the unexpected requirement to return to Pompey to dry dock for the necessary repairs, instead of carrying on the Falkland Islands for several months, several full grown adults alive today simply wouldn't have been conceived - so in a way I guess they owe him their lives for his cock up.

No one ever said complete morons weren't allowed to sail !

However, I would suggest most yachts or mobos whacking into a buoy are less likely to lead to otherwise unexpected conceptions, just the boat will be f***ed.

 

[TonyBuckley]

Indeed, but many seem to forget navigation marks are held in place by a chain and can therefore move in a circle quite a few metres wide - a certain Lt C***e W**ds RN will never forget that when he managed to run over the West Shambles cardinal buoy off Portland Bill on the Type 42 HMS Southampton in 1984, indeed due to the unexpected requirement to return to Pompey to dry dock for the necessary repairs, instead of carrying on the Falkland Islands for several months, several full grown adults alive today simply wouldn't have been conceived - so in a way I guess they owe him their lives for his cock up.

No one ever said complete morons weren't allowed to sail !

However, I would suggest most yachts or mobos whacking into a buoy are less likely to lead to otherwise unexpected conceptions, just the boat will be f***ed.

Quite possibly the most strange post I've seen on here.

 

[Twister_Ken]

I have a Garmin plotter (GPSmap 555) which can talk to my Raymarine SPX10 pilot. But I don't let it.

To the OP, I'd recommend getting a pilot which steers via a ram onto the quadrant, rather than a belt drive one on the wheel; those often seem to have limited life span.

 

[Marsupial]

I have a Garmin plotter (GPSmap 555) which can talk to my Raymarine SPX10 pilot. But I don't let it.

To the OP, I'd recommend getting a pilot which steers via a ram onto the quadrant, rather than a belt drive one on the wheel; those often seem to have limited life span.

Yes Ken has just about nailed it, IF you must have an autohelm and you have wheel steering then the ram technology is superior, expensive but superior. Buy a plotter you like and can operate without a masters degree and can be installed without a huge pile of knitting, investigate sets with a built in antenna make sure it will work where you intend to place it. I find Garmin more intuitive than Raymarine buts that's my problem (I have Raymarine it came with the boat). Although its very tempting don't link the two; YOU navigate the boat, point it where you want to go and George will hold the wheel for you on the odd occasion when you cant but you cant sleep.

I know there are lots of toys out there to fill the nav station but resist, keep the boat simple and equipment levels low, fit what is essential, leave out the nice to haves and could haves (MoSCoW analysis).

Enjoy your sailing.

 

[ianj99]

Hi
I need to buy a new plotter and auto-helm. Anyone recommend any particular brands? The one in it is very old it is for a Moody 30. I would like it to link together with radar and AIS etc

I recently binned my old analogue AP and replaced it with a Raymarine SPX30 and P70 head unit, but kept the original hydraulic pump. The results are superb - much less pump operation. In fact it just gets on with the job in the background with no fuss or drama. In fact on a 6hour trip I almost forgot it was doing the steering although I was only using in auto mode, not track mode.
The autolearn process it does during the initial sea trials is impressive as it learns how responsive the boat is to the helm.
Both items were from Ebay seller StevieD so a bit cheaper than buying new. I already had a Raymarine fluxgate compass and rudder angle sensor. Here is a similar package.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Raymarine-autopilot-spx30-P70-display-head-fluxgate-compass-/380913708560

One slight irritation is that the SPX30 will not recognise and pass the DPT sentence from its nmea input to the SeatalkNG bus so I cannot get the P70 to display the depth.
A rather disappointing oversight on Raymarine's part I feel.
Can't comment on a suitable plotter other than to agree that a one-make setup is best.

 

[richardbrennan]

I would not be too concerned about having all the equipment from the same manufacturer. I have a Garmin plotter, Raymarine instruments and autohelm, an Icom radio and a Digital Yacht AIS. They all talk to each other without a problem and I assure you that I am not some wiring genius. However you do gain some advantages with common kit, such as being able to call up a AIS vessel directly from the plotter without entering its MMSI number in the radio, if you have exclusively Garmin kit. I too would agree to the limited value of linking the autopilot to follow a route, but I do find it valuable, with the plotter below at the chart table, to be able to get bearing and distance to the next waypoint displayed on the Autohelm and also SOG displayed on the log.

 

[bitbaltic]

YES! SAVE YOUR MONEY ! GO SAILING!

or

Buy an X BOX and stay at home

SIMPLES!

PS Only a complete moron plots a waypoint on a solid object.

LOL, I will have one of whatever you're having. But for what it's worth I agree with you. Too many folk sail 20 Nm on an autopilot and 20Nm back making a weekend of it. We have had an autopilot in the locker for three years and never plugged it in except to check it works. Each to their own of course (caveat for the flames).

Cheers