Fantasie 19
Well-Known Member
+1... Wanderer if it's considered too big.... use the car to pull it up the slip
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Pleasure sailing Dinghy.
- Thread starter Binman
- Start date
+1... Wanderer if it's considered too big.... use the car to pull it up the slip
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Gin
Well-Known Member
The Wayfarer seems an obvious choice as Frank and Margaret Dye camped and crossed seas in one. I would be tempted by a YW Dayboat as they are virtually non- capsizeable with a galavanised centreboard and very comfortable to live with. However, both recommendations are very heavy (the Dayboat even more so- 460 lbs if I remember correctly) so much would depend on the manner of launching/recovery and towing.
Seajet
...
Or go for the heavy but high performance and seaworthy ( for racing dinghies ) end of the dinghy spectrum, the Osprey; as Dancrane is admirably exerimenting with for cruising, his posts are on here and/or Scuttlebutt, and possibly the single best reason for keeping watching these forums.
Binman
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your suggestions, take me a while to digest, loved the spitfire and close to me at Faversham, but above my price range, the gull is a good suggestion, more my price range, £2000 would be my limit. Going to look at all suggested and come back again.
FairweatherDave
Well-Known Member
Google Hostellers sailing club for a really good read. Seriously! It inspired me .
Personally I went for a Wayfarer with no regrets. But single handed ashore it is a bit of a handful until you learn to use the car as much as possible or winch/block and tackle techniques. But I also sail with family so the space comes into its own. Lots to choose from and cheaper than Wanderers and posh Gull spirits. But if I was only ever single handing and day sailing then definitely go smaller. But for comfort and stability and sleeping aboard you can't beat the Wayfarer. Also get a small jib ... Although the boat sails well under reefed main.
And another vote for looking at the DCA. Huge amount of experience and rallies year round. Newcomers always welcome.
Personally I went for a Wayfarer with no regrets. But single handed ashore it is a bit of a handful until you learn to use the car as much as possible or winch/block and tackle techniques. But I also sail with family so the space comes into its own. Lots to choose from and cheaper than Wanderers and posh Gull spirits. But if I was only ever single handing and day sailing then definitely go smaller. But for comfort and stability and sleeping aboard you can't beat the Wayfarer. Also get a small jib ... Although the boat sails well under reefed main.
And another vote for looking at the DCA. Huge amount of experience and rallies year round. Newcomers always welcome.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Andy, you're too kind by half, with your remarks. :encouragement:
Okay, ease back on the groans, gentlemen. Y'all know me, y'know what I do...but let me tell Binman what I think, and he can judge for himself. Sorry to come late to this thread, but I'd be very sorry if he bought a boat without reading my experiences.
So...you want a dinghy, but you won't be racing? Ah, well. Obviously, you need something massive, slow and ruinous to your spine...
...something that'll waddle along safely, without ever really exciting you...something you can load up like Shackleton's James Caird...
...does that sound about right? If it is, read no further. But be glad of your newness to the question, because I'm delighted with my solution to it...
...I wanted a yacht. I've sailed dinghies for 35 years. Wanted something bigger, couldn't afford it. Couldn't put my hands on more than £500...
...and whatever anyone says about little old yachts, buying, restoring, antifouling and mooring a 17ft cruiser for a year will cost heaps more than that.
So, I bought the biggest dinghy I could find...an Osprey. Sixty year old design (by Ian Proctor, who did the Wayfarer...they have a lot in common, except that the Osprey is quite a lot faster...sorry chaps, but it's true); mine is an all-GRP Mk2 from the early nineteen-seventies.
Admittedly she was a hideous green when I bought her, but that wasn't hard to sort out. I was delighted immediately by how ruddy BIG she is! 17ft 6inches - that's 20 inches longer than a Wayfarer, though she's five inches less beamy and nearly 40KG lighter...
...and looking at the size and the depth of the cockpit, I immediately knew this was a boat I could work on to allow sleeping aboard...
...did somebody suggest a Gull? Very pretty boats. Fit nicely in my cockpit.
All mine needs is some flat plywood flooring to lie on. I'm working on it...
Now, I am no longer young, I was never very strong, I'm five-foot-eight and about ten-stone-ten...but I can pull the Osprey out, alone! She's tough and reputed to be an excellent sea-boat, but doesn't have very much in common with 'approved' cruising dinghies...and I really pity those chaps when they come ashore and have to recruit half the club to help them pull their rugged little heavyweights out.
Soon I bought oars and fitted a genoa furler with help from gents here on the forum; I bought an anchor and fitted lazyjacks (yes, really) and I sewed a deep reef in the mainsail; so now I can routinely sail alone, in any reasonable weather, setting enough sail to be manageable, whilst enjoying the fact that the boat isn't a mere cockleshell, she's a big, comfortable, sporty, very beautiful classic...
...that was my landfall after a very long, fast, effortless daysail last year. I think the best part of buying a conventional, performance design like the Osprey, is that she wasn't built only to go fast downwind; she was designed to be well-mannered in every direction...
...but I can tell you that singlehanding off the wind, in a boat that was originally designed to race with the weight of three men aboard, has been one of the great thrills of my life. So, Binman, don't bother with singlehanders, because two-man racers are usefully bigger and can easily be modified for singlehanded use; and they truly are double the fun. I still want a yacht, but I'll never sell my Osprey.
Those oars are eight feet long. They easily fit on the floor if I want. I built waterproof lockers under the stern deck, and ahead of the mast is a huge compartment, also watertight...well, mine will be, once I've fixed a slight keel-band leak.
Lots of cheap old Ospreys for sale in the UK. Credit is due to Seajet, here, for persistently telling me it was the boat for me. He wasn't wrong. I often find my face hurts after a long sail. It's not sunburn, it's the result of grinning for three solid hours. :encouragement:
Okay, ease back on the groans, gentlemen. Y'all know me, y'know what I do...but let me tell Binman what I think, and he can judge for himself. Sorry to come late to this thread, but I'd be very sorry if he bought a boat without reading my experiences.
So...you want a dinghy, but you won't be racing? Ah, well. Obviously, you need something massive, slow and ruinous to your spine...
...something that'll waddle along safely, without ever really exciting you...something you can load up like Shackleton's James Caird...
...does that sound about right? If it is, read no further. But be glad of your newness to the question, because I'm delighted with my solution to it...
...I wanted a yacht. I've sailed dinghies for 35 years. Wanted something bigger, couldn't afford it. Couldn't put my hands on more than £500...
...and whatever anyone says about little old yachts, buying, restoring, antifouling and mooring a 17ft cruiser for a year will cost heaps more than that.
So, I bought the biggest dinghy I could find...an Osprey. Sixty year old design (by Ian Proctor, who did the Wayfarer...they have a lot in common, except that the Osprey is quite a lot faster...sorry chaps, but it's true); mine is an all-GRP Mk2 from the early nineteen-seventies.
Admittedly she was a hideous green when I bought her, but that wasn't hard to sort out. I was delighted immediately by how ruddy BIG she is! 17ft 6inches - that's 20 inches longer than a Wayfarer, though she's five inches less beamy and nearly 40KG lighter...
...and looking at the size and the depth of the cockpit, I immediately knew this was a boat I could work on to allow sleeping aboard...
...did somebody suggest a Gull? Very pretty boats. Fit nicely in my cockpit.
All mine needs is some flat plywood flooring to lie on. I'm working on it...
Now, I am no longer young, I was never very strong, I'm five-foot-eight and about ten-stone-ten...but I can pull the Osprey out, alone! She's tough and reputed to be an excellent sea-boat, but doesn't have very much in common with 'approved' cruising dinghies...and I really pity those chaps when they come ashore and have to recruit half the club to help them pull their rugged little heavyweights out.
Soon I bought oars and fitted a genoa furler with help from gents here on the forum; I bought an anchor and fitted lazyjacks (yes, really) and I sewed a deep reef in the mainsail; so now I can routinely sail alone, in any reasonable weather, setting enough sail to be manageable, whilst enjoying the fact that the boat isn't a mere cockleshell, she's a big, comfortable, sporty, very beautiful classic...
...that was my landfall after a very long, fast, effortless daysail last year. I think the best part of buying a conventional, performance design like the Osprey, is that she wasn't built only to go fast downwind; she was designed to be well-mannered in every direction...
...but I can tell you that singlehanding off the wind, in a boat that was originally designed to race with the weight of three men aboard, has been one of the great thrills of my life. So, Binman, don't bother with singlehanders, because two-man racers are usefully bigger and can easily be modified for singlehanded use; and they truly are double the fun. I still want a yacht, but I'll never sell my Osprey.
Those oars are eight feet long. They easily fit on the floor if I want. I built waterproof lockers under the stern deck, and ahead of the mast is a huge compartment, also watertight...well, mine will be, once I've fixed a slight keel-band leak.
Lots of cheap old Ospreys for sale in the UK. Credit is due to Seajet, here, for persistently telling me it was the boat for me. He wasn't wrong. I often find my face hurts after a long sail. It's not sunburn, it's the result of grinning for three solid hours. :encouragement:
Seajet
...
Thankyou Dan,.
but it must be said you have applied far more effort to your Osprey project than most people would; nowadays people don't build kit yachts, which I'm damn sure you would have, if of that generation - nowadays people seem to prefer to be spoonfed and get into more debt rather than raise such a technical tool as a screwdriver.
However I was going to mention, a few years ago I stumbled across 2 couples in Chichester Harbour in Gulls, none of them past the first flush of youth, very determinedly cruising; they might have been camping aboard I thought.
Notably the boats were heavy enough with the cruising junk one naturally acquires, that the boats were just left slightly grounded on the slip while SWMBO nipped off to buy essentials.
Dan, even a Gull or Otter is a serious pain on slipways for a light or solo crew, so there is a strong case for going your way with a big relatively heavy Osprey ; going where one wants quickly and enjoyably before any real bad weater hits, with the huge bonus of sailing the 60's boat equivalent of an E-Type Jag' !
but it must be said you have applied far more effort to your Osprey project than most people would; nowadays people don't build kit yachts, which I'm damn sure you would have, if of that generation - nowadays people seem to prefer to be spoonfed and get into more debt rather than raise such a technical tool as a screwdriver.
However I was going to mention, a few years ago I stumbled across 2 couples in Chichester Harbour in Gulls, none of them past the first flush of youth, very determinedly cruising; they might have been camping aboard I thought.
Notably the boats were heavy enough with the cruising junk one naturally acquires, that the boats were just left slightly grounded on the slip while SWMBO nipped off to buy essentials.
Dan, even a Gull or Otter is a serious pain on slipways for a light or solo crew, so there is a strong case for going your way with a big relatively heavy Osprey ; going where one wants quickly and enjoyably before any real bad weater hits, with the huge bonus of sailing the 60's boat equivalent of an E-Type Jag' !
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ex-Gladys
Well-Known Member
As someone who raced Ospreys, 505s and Fireballs in the 60's & 70's I have a few observations.
1. The Osprey is probably the best seaboat for a dinghy that I could imagine, and I have seen them raced in weather that you wouldn't believe... I find it difficult to imagine the "step down" from flat out racing to cruising one.
2. Both the Osprey and the 505 were designed in the 50's (I was even privileged enough to see a mkI full clinker Osprey designed to be sailed three up, no trapeze), and STILL they provide a performance benchmark that other later dinghies (particularly skiff types) struggle to meet.
3. They both handle beautifully, because their original design was just right
PS, I'm not suggesting a 505 as a cruising dinghy by the way....
jwilson
Well-Known Member
I think you have hit the nail on the head with the "cruisified" Osprey: fast and handles very nicely indeed. You can always slow down a fast boat, you can't speed up a slow one. Possibly the fastest I have ever been in a non-cat dinghy is three up (one trapezing) on a broad reach in an Osprey in a half gale. We were on our way back to the club to get out a rescue boat as several other boats were in serious trouble in rapidly rising wind and sea.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your approval of the Osprey's design.
As to 'stepping down' from racer to cruiser, I didn't have to, because I've never raced. I made a few bold modifications to the boat, to reduce the power in a breeze to something I could manage even without trapezing...principally the very deep mainsail reef...
...you may laugh, but that's still 100sq ft of sail, and I've often been glad to be able to wind-up the genoa too.
Dinghy-cruisers are often afraid of being overpowered, but their default response is to choose a boat that lacks get-up-and-go...
...which is a shame because reefing the mainsail is like dropping a couple of gears - the force-2 flyer becomes docile in a force 4, without necessitating dull performance in really light winds.
Andy, regarding weight ashore, I would say to any dinghy-sailor planning to singlehand, that I have occasionally been glad to have on board a long 4:1 tackle with 10mm or thicker line, which I can use to haul the boat (on her trolley) over an obstructive lump in the slipway. Nine times out of ten I can manage without, but having the extra purchase means one never needs to be unable to haul out.
As to 'stepping down' from racer to cruiser, I didn't have to, because I've never raced. I made a few bold modifications to the boat, to reduce the power in a breeze to something I could manage even without trapezing...principally the very deep mainsail reef...
...you may laugh, but that's still 100sq ft of sail, and I've often been glad to be able to wind-up the genoa too.
Dinghy-cruisers are often afraid of being overpowered, but their default response is to choose a boat that lacks get-up-and-go...
...which is a shame because reefing the mainsail is like dropping a couple of gears - the force-2 flyer becomes docile in a force 4, without necessitating dull performance in really light winds.
Andy, regarding weight ashore, I would say to any dinghy-sailor planning to singlehand, that I have occasionally been glad to have on board a long 4:1 tackle with 10mm or thicker line, which I can use to haul the boat (on her trolley) over an obstructive lump in the slipway. Nine times out of ten I can manage without, but having the extra purchase means one never needs to be unable to haul out.
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Tam Lin
Well-Known Member
Hey Dan, nice looking boat!
davidej
Well-Known Member
no doubt, a Wayfarer.
Masses of cruising potential, and it's all well documented.
I had a racy one. Electric fun, especially when the hairy dinghies had to cancel races.
A bit hefty for one - especially if you have to get it in and out of the water single handed
mezereon
Well-Known Member
Another one to add to the list is the Tideway. They are IMO lovely looking in the Swallows & Amazons tradition, easy to row, pleasant to sail / motor (sit-in rather than sit-on), and while it doesn't appeal to me, apparently they can be slept on. The original wooden boats look lovely, but there are GRP versions which require practically no maintenance.
There's a wooden one on ebay now (no connection to me).
There's a wooden one on ebay now (no connection to me).
Seajet
...
Gladys,
I was lucky enough to crew a Fireball for a few ' Snowflake ' winter series at Chichester - I found it huge fun to crew - not helm - I'm sure Plan A with 3 crew and no trapeze would have made it a right pain and no fun - and a 505 on a round Hayling Island race, I thought it boring even when on the plane.
As you say, the Osprey was an inspired design; to the extent I'd say designers should have put down their pencils there and then and moved on to something else like cruisers or spacecraft...
ex-Gladys
Well-Known Member
In a very extensive dinghy racing career I was amazed at the difference between an inspirational boat that behaved in a predictable way and the majority which would find ways of catching you out. I have memories of following a GP14 to a buoy, and seeing it pile straight on with the tiller on the weather gunwhale as the skipper tried to bear away, whilst I bore away and gybed underneath him... And don't ask me about poxy Enterprises....
I sailed cats latterly and similarly to the Osprey/505, the Tornado (under original rig anyway) and Hobie 17 did the same sort of thing. The Tornado would let you know you were pushing your luck, whereas things like the Dart 18, and Hurricane 5.9 would just ditch you spectacularly
Fantasie 19
Well-Known Member
As a much younger man I used to do rescue boat for Eastney Cruising Associations Tornado fleet... what an amazing boat... so exciting to watch, used to plonk the rescue boat about 20 or so yards away from the top mark and watch the fleet come round... amazing...
Alfie168
Well-Known Member
Having sailed Larks, Enterprises and Wayfarers extensively, and started off in a Heron (not that far from a Gull). The Lark is light but tippy and not really suitable for cruising. Its a racing boat, and great for that. On the water the Wayfarer has few competitors as a versatile roomy good handling day boat that can also race, but as people say, you will not get it up a ramp without a) lots of help or b) a car with a towbar and rope. Also ideally you need a trailer with a nosewheel to stabilise it and preserve your back. If you can plan the putting in and taking out of the water, then the Wayfarer is the best. Any lighter and you start to have to compromise on cruising ability. The next step 'down'..(.though its anything but down) is the GP 14. They are stable single chine dinghies that are good at sea and can be moored. Its still not an easy ramp pull for one person, but it is possible though two is advisable.
Any smaller and you won't be sleeping in it..well not much anyway. The Enterprise ( l.o.a. 13ft 3 ins 404 cm) is over sailed for cruising with the racing rig up, but you used to see the odd one with a cruising rig...decades ago. I don't think you could sleep in one though.
Much better to stow a small tent and chuck that up where you moor bankside if possible. You can get a simple tent for £20 at a supermarket, even some 'pop up' ones are low cost these days, so you can pitch them almost blindfold. It will do a season or two with care.
Tim
He obviously hadn't released the mainsheet.
Alfie168
Well-Known Member
Enterprises teach you to sail properly, or they punish you. That was in Jack Holts design brief and he deliberately gave it a massive mainsail relative to its length that demanded considerable control. Watching an Ent. sailed well is a lesson in good sailing...something I never quite achieved in mine! In the Enterprise fleet we always called the Fireball "The Old Blokes Boat" as it had virtually no vices at all. Great boat by the way and the best championship winning boats of all are built up here in Keighley by Guy Winder (now his son David) and during the wooden pre composite era by Mike Saul who worked alongside Guy some years back.
http://www.winderboats.com/
Tim