Please wear lifejackets when you are in your dinghy...

FWIW I reckon that on the saily boat jackstays/lifelines/harness even more useful than LJ. Tend to use LJ with harness built in.
And must have crotch straps of some kind.
As to when - we use the RORC race rules ie at night, in fog, when the reef goes in. Don't tend to sail with kids though.
And definetley in the dinghy.
 
Do/would you wear a lifejacket during the day in the Med in Summer

Interesting thread, for those sailing in the cold waters around the UK. However, when its burning hot in fair weather, one never sees anyone with a LJ on in the Med. HArd to enforce a coucil of perfection here. TudorDoc
 
Re: Do/would you wear a lifejacket during the day in the Med in Summer

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Interesting thread, for those sailing in the cold waters around the UK. However, when its burning hot in fair weather, one never sees anyone with a LJ on in the Med. HArd to enforce a coucil of perfection here. TudorDoc

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Like I said, horses for courses, the danger is, as I see it, that all this thou shalt stuff, is given too much credence, and before you know where you are, you got some Numptey in high places landing you with statutory dictats.

Don't forget, that going to sea in small boats is one of the last real freedoms we have, and there are many it seems to me that would dearly like to curtail that freedom.

Unfortunately, you can't educate pork, and there will always be those that by their actions threaten the freedoms of all of us. I think that those that want to wear life jackets, should do so, when and were they want to, likewise, those that don't shouldn't have to. Saying that, if you choose not to at an inapropriate time, it's your own fault if you drown! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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You still got "Slippy" Phil?

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Sounds like some kind of gangster!
 
Slippy Phil???......Hmmmmmmm! do seem kind of appropriate! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
I am tempted to say I have never seen so much 'holier than thou' posting. I suppose I ought to be impressed by the number of people who claim always to wear their lifejackets at sea.

I am more impressed by those who assess the risk. When the water is warm and when I have a strong crew I have even been known to be in a dinghy without a lifejacket. It seems slightly strange to swim off the boat one moment and then wear a lifejacket to go to the beach a few yards away with no tide running and the same warm water underneath with several other people on hand to pull me out if I fall in. However if the water is cold, or its dark or if there is alcohol involved I INSIST people wear their lifejackets in the dinghy. Generally we wear lifejackets in the dinghy 99 times out of 100.

On board, its a matter of assessing the risk as well. As soon as it gets dusk, out come the lifejackets and harnesses. If its bright sunshine, warm and calm, I don't insist.

When the children were younger, they wore them all the time.

If I am by myself, I invariably wear one. If I have lots of strong crew and the weather is good, I am less likely to.

What's the problem?

Saying 'I always wear mine' isn't a persuasive argument to me. After all 100,000 lemmings can't be wrong.

Isn't seamanship about applying sensible workable solutions to problems and risks?
 
Seems to me that the inability to assess the risk by even experienced yachtsmen has caused many a fatality to the point where a blanket "wear a life jacket in the dinghy" makes sense. Before the powers that be decide that they better legislate for us, just as they did in Ireland.

Rick
 
Disagree, quite strongly, I will do my own thinking thank you, whatever "powers that be" may think or decide. Phrases like "Risk Assessment" give me the craps! same bollix as all the Elf and Safty garbage everybody is burdened with.

Think for yourself, accept responsiblity for your own actions. If people did those two simple things, instead of always looking around for someone else or something else to blame but themselves, we would all be better off.
 
Oh they will probably bring in a rule. I used to love motorcycling without a helmet - my choice - but the option was taken away. Needless to say, we don't use our LJs much at all. SWMBO fell in wearing one a few years ago and it made her so difficult to recover we decided they could lead to trouble as well as help. Clipping on is our favourite underway in bumpy stuff at night. current boat has a bathing platform, so the alcohol-fuelled dinghy-to-boat incidents should now be a thing of the past......?
 
We always have lifejackets on underway unless in the cabin, heads etc.. But if anyone wants to come upstairs they must put it on before they set foot on the steps. I will occasionally sit in the cockpit at the mooring without my lifejacket on but if I need to go on deck for any reason I will put it on. I always wear it in the tender. I always wear a lifejacket or bouyancy aid in my sailing dinghy too.
I view it like my car seatbelt and wear it as a matter of course. I can't see any possible reason not to wear one, especially as I have jackets with integral harnesses.
I do subscribe to the view that the best way not to drown is not to fall in and try to act accordingly but I also worship at the altar of the great god Murphy.
 
An accident is, by definition, unexpected. Something happens that we didn't expect to happen. Although we didn't expect it to happen, there are things we can do to reduce its effects when it does happen.

We never expect to fall in, and yet some of us do. We never expect, if we do fall in, to crack our head or break our arm in the act of falling, and yet some of us do. If we do find ourselves in the water we never expect to be unable to get ourselves out, and yet some of us can't. We don't anticipate hypothermia, and yet some of us get it. We expect a yacht to get back to an MOB quickly, but sometimes it doesn't.

Wearing £50 worth of lifejacket as a way of improving our odds in the event of something we hadn't anticipated happening actually happening seems to come into the category of a 'no brainer', at least to me.

On Saturday two forumites died in relatively benign conditions on the River Deben. I had the misfortune to see the search for their bodies being conducted. Had they been wearing lifejackets they might, today, be regaling us with the stories of the accidental dunking they hadn't expected to happen.
 
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However if the water is cold, or its dark or if there is alcohol involved I INSIST people wear their lifejackets in the dinghy. Generally we wear lifejackets in the dinghy 99 times out of 100.


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From which we may conclude that whenever you use the dinghy it is cold, dark and you are off to get drunk!

We certainly aren't holier than thou, more like wickeder than all because we rarely use lifejackets which admitting it amongst folks around here is heresy of the highest order! Certainly if we were setting out in rough conditions in the dinghy we might and we did when we used to have a dinghy ride to an exposed mooring. We are now on a marina berth so the dinghy is used by choice rather than necessity and we would avoid rough trips, don't go pubbing and don't don the lifejackets for partaking of G&Ts on board. However for visiting Serendipity to sample the excellent malts I might if the occasion arises again /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

On the big boat, we will wear harnesses if it is seriously rough and if either of us feels concerned but it is not automatic even at night. Our lifejackets and harnesses are combined ones these days and we have harness points in the cockpit, at the wheel, on the bridgedeck and have jackstays down the sidedecks. However we have all reefing done (all 3 slabs and roller genoa) from the cockpit so wandering around on deck isn't needed and we have a big roll cage around the helm position in the form of our stern gantry. Peeing over the side is no longer needed since I bought my rough weather loo (the little beach bucket on a string tied to the pushpit..)

I wonder at which boat size people STOP wearing lifejackets? Once you accept that you wouldn't wear one on the QE11 it implies there is a boatsize above which you consider it isn't needed so all we have to determine is what that size is!

Robin
 
Fail to see what you are driving at, I never said that people should not wear a life jacket, I suggest that you read my posts more carefully. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Smiffy,

Just my views, not in response to your last comments. Just so happened that two other posts got in between me beginning my post and then submitting it making it look as if I was replying specifically to you, rather than just another 'serial' comment.

But if you want a specific comment, then "risk assessment" – which you seem to dismiss –  goes on in our heads whenever we contemplate any action which may have unfortunate consequences. I'm about to walk down to the postbox. I'll probably make several risk assessment decisions on the way there. Risk assessments don't have to be 17 sheets of A4, in a format approved by Section 16a of the Walking in the Dark Regulations, 1976 as amended by the Pedestrian and Vehicle Potential Conflict Guidelines.
 
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From which we may conclude that whenever you use the dinghy it is cold, dark and you are off to get drunk!



[/ QUOTE ]Is this just because we only gave you coffee last time your were onboard? Or am I admitting that I am another 'normal' sailor. Yes, we enjoy a drink, yes its invariably cold and wet when we go sailing. Its sailing in the UK isn't it?

As you know my boat just as I know yours, you will be aware that we too have clip on points at the companionway, helm, and jackstays up the deck. Our centre cockpit is deep and secure. Harnesses before lifejackets anyday. Our lifejackets happen to be harnesses as well.

I still don't like the 'holier than thou' attitude of some posters though. I must be getting old and will probably get flamed for my posts.

Even after my previous post, I note that people are still claiming some sort of moral high ground over lifejacket wearing. Just stating what you normally do isn't any justification for doing it!
 
Ha-Ha! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Likes it!. I know what you mean, but all this blather about it, honestly Ken, it's just part of what everybody does all the time, it don't need to be analised verbalised or whatever-ised!

It's simple folks can wear a life jacket and or harness or stand on their heads and whistle dixie, at the end of the day, it is down to each individual to make the choices for themselves, it is NOT beholden on others to come on with the thou shalts and criticisms of those who choose to make different decisions to themselves. I happen to believe that a properly set up harness that wont allow you over the side, is of more use than a lifejacket at sea, but that's just what I choose for myself, others must make their own decisions about what is right for them, but if they get it wrong, then they have to be prepared to accept the consequences of their actions, and not start hunting around for somebody to blame and worse still, somebody to sue!
 
I quite agree with you. I don't judge people who do wear life jackets on the lake. If they feel safer or more comfortable then that's up to them.
But it seems that you do get judged if you don't wear one.
Why is this? People go to great lengths to imagine scenarios in which the LJ will be a benefit. "So that proves you should wear one"

Well, no, actually. It merely shows that there are many situations which are dangerous.
It doesn't mean you must wear one.
 
If I'm using the rubber dinghy and have more than light clothing on, I'll wear a LJ. If we're in the GRP tender going to the mooring in the sheltered dinghy, maybe not. In winter I tend to wear one in both tender and yacht. In summer the rule on my boat is; always at night or if we reef, whenever I say so and any other time the crew fell like it.

I understood that more people drown in the bath than leisure boating accidents.

I never wear one in the bath.
 
In my youth, when I was indestructible, and living for some time on a boat on a swinging estuary mooring, the thought of a lifejacket (let alone baler, torch or anchor) was wholly alien to me for the 1/4 mile row twixt hard and boat. Night or day, fair weather or foul, light or pitch dark, drunk or sober, I'd make that trip - and no boarding ladder, either. Tie the soggy inflatable's painter to a stanchion, a tiny foothold on the rubbing strake and scramble up. To be honest, the hundreds (yes, hundreds, not scores) of times I boarded this way between eleven and midnight at all states of tide, wind, rain, sleet and snow with a gallon of ale under my belt, and with or without someone else with me, were wholly unremarkable at the time.

Mortality seems much closer these days. The sad premature death of Malcolm Hardee, whose corpse Police divers found still clutching a bottle of beer in his right hand, after a fall from his dinghy, brings these things home.

I'm an old cowardy custard in a LJ these days.
 
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Is this just because we only gave you coffee last time your were onboard? Or am I admitting that I am another 'normal' sailor. Yes, we enjoy a drink, yes its invariably cold and wet when we go sailing. Its sailing in the UK isn't it?


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You only had coffee with us too last time! As for cold and wet we only get to meet you in the warm sun of South Brittany and it is our turn to run the bar next time - promise.

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I still don't like the 'holier than thou' attitude of some posters though. I must be getting old and will probably get flamed for my posts.

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It must be the time of year for it because I'm definitely one of the out crowd in some circles of late:-

Lifejacket use (or non-use)
Fin Keel instead of long keel, not encapsulated
Separate rudder (but it has a bit of skeg honest!)
Use the roller genoa for reefing instead of the staysail or storm jib on the removeable stay.
Use the triple reefed main instead of the trysail even though we have a track for it.
Like the space and comfort of a modern yacht (well a 20 year old) as opposed to the Corinthian life aboard some MABs.
Like to sail fast.
Still like CQRs and love our Delta and trust both.

So let's just enjoy being flamed, a good BBQ is always fun!

Robin
 
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