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[coachone]

I suspect this exercise might be more useful if contributors could quote chapter and verse on a particular incident when a boat got entangled with a pot line, particularly if damage to equipment or the rescue services were involved.

If we are to make a difference and persuade the agencies to take some action a cry of "there seem to be more pots about" won't change their attitude, we'll need to show that accidents and incidents invoving unmarked pots are on the increase and it is only a matter of time before we have a death on their hands as a result of their inaction.

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[KevB]

The Solent is full of "pot markers" of all colours and descriptions. Mainly old plastic oil cans which are half submerged at anywhere near high tide.

French fisherman seem much more boater friendly as they all seem to have a flag flying about a meter above the marker.

I have been caught twice by our fishermans cast off's, once by a marker floating around with at least 5mtrs of floating line and nothing attached to it and the other time by part of a discarded nylon net.

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[Escapeii]

I had an interesting experience with a fishing boat doing a spot of out of season netting in Killala (west coast of Ireland) in the summer of 2001. The boat had laid an unmarked net (the floats floating just below the surface) across the entrance to the bay. We innocently sailed into it under full sail. Fortunately the weather was reasonably calm enabling us to spend a happy hour cutting ourselves free, whilst the fishing boat stood by. Being out of season they of course said nothing as we sliced through their line and net with our bread knife.
The experience sharpened our look out no end.
Perhaps the quantity of fishing gear that occupies the Irish west coast partly explains the absence of yotties.

Last year I had another interesting experience with a length of drifting fishing net. Just before midnight on June 3rd. we were happily motoring along the coast of Spain, a little west of Santander, and some 7 miles offshore, when the engine made a sickening stalling noise and promptly stopped. A quick look over the stern confirmed the worse, trailing from the stern was some 10 metres of industrial strength turquoise fishing net. Ironically we were dodging a fishing boat (showing no lights) at the time.
Fortunately we still had full use of the rudder, and it was a calm night, with a forecast for more of the same. We took onboard the majority of the trailing net securing it to the pushpit. Then we raised some sail to gain steerageway and waited for the dawn. When the dawn came the sea was still calm and the net was easily cleared with our bread knife. Two days later our Navtex displayed a warning of a length of net adrift off Santander, maybe it was the big brother of the bit we encountered.

The experiences provoked two thoughts:
Diving knives may look sexy but they are no match for a decent bread knife.
Why do fishing boats use nets made of floating rope, is it the cost of the alternative?


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[MADFISH]

Round the island race 2002

The back of the island was littered with pots smaller than a football in size with 30ft+ of floating rope streaming on the surface. Despite dedicating a crewmember to look out for them we caught the trailing rope of one round our rudder whilst sailing at 8knts with the kite up just off Ventnor. The boat was bought up all standing with the pot stuck round our rudder. Boats on our quarter had to take serious avoiding action to avert a collision. We managed to cut the bouy off to free ourselves.

Does no one tell the fisherman about these events? Do they do it on purpose?

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[Moz]

Hi,
I dont know about down here but if you get caught lifting someone elses gear up in Scotland you can lose your boat. Also i'd love to see you lifting a string of 20-50 pots without a hydrolic winch but go ahead and try if you want.
Fishermen go to sea to make a living, most of you go to sea for enjoyment. The sea is full of dangers and ropes and buoys are not going to go away. My advice is to get your selves rope cutters installed and leave these guys to do their jobs!
Moz....

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[BrendanS]

Maybe you don't have the same problems in Scotland that we do down south. No one has anything against fishermen earning a living, and putting down correctly marked gear in sensible locations.

What everyone has an issue with, are the myriad of pleasure boaters who take a few pots out with them, then dump them with makeshift buoys in shipping lanes, channels, and other locations which makes it inevitable that you're going to hit them, often with floating rope between them.

When my boat was lifted out last weekend, it was apparent that I'd been lucky. I hadn't caught any lines round prop, but there were three coloured marks deep down on hull where I'd obviously gone over bouys of some sort (they are often underwater where you can't see them in the strong tides)

I haven't seen any rope cutters you can put on an Alpha drive.

<hr width=100% size=1>Err, let me know if Depsol enters the forum, I'll go and hide

 

[bob_tyler]

I very much respect the fishermen making a living. I ONLY referred to improperly marked pots in dangerous positions.

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[Robin]

Moz

I think a lot of the crap we are talking about down here would worry the genuine fishermen as much as us. This isn't professional gear it's either amateur or cowboy moonlighter. I don't guess the pros up your way use old 5 and 10 litre black cans in 3kts or more of tide do they? If I'm right these guys are the ones stealing a living at the expense of the genuine hard working tax paying EEC rule obeying fisherman.

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[Scillypete]

The RYA are a bit slow on this one, they have a course for most things why not a 'How to lay pots properly' course for the amateurs.

Also someone must have seen a set of these pots being lifted at some stage as they usually need checking at least every other day else the catch can escape unless using parlour pots. If you see them then advise them in no uncertain terms of their misdemeanour.



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[Robin]

Actually there are so many of these blue or black can ones about that they are unlikely to be amateur, more likely cowboy moonlighter. These are laid all over the place in the Needles channel, North channel and North channel entrance (the 'safe' entry in bad weather!) tides here run up to 4kts and the Shingles Bank is but yards away as is the (usual) lee shore off Hurst. If you get past these there are backup ones to catch you scattered liberally around the west Solent Lymington/Yarmouth areas and across Christchurch Ledge. I haven't yet seen anyone tending these nor have I seen such markers on the fishing boats in Yarmouth or Lymington.

However there are also large pink markers with long floating lines to pickups which I am sure ARE professional. I don't think the floating lines are necessary but maybe I'm wrong.

We do have a rope cutter fitted and it has worked. However a rope picked up on the rudder as we did on our last boat in heavy seas is out of reach of the cutter, we were lucky that the rope snapped and just left a 3' bit stuck in the gap to show what had happened.



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[fiddle]

My home waters are the Menaii Straits, around Anglesy and Caernarfon Bay. There have always been pot markers (25 Years) and they have been well marked with large bright floats and, off Trefor, with flags. This year though there are many more. Anyone heading South through the Swellies should keep on the last transit until well off the Wales side. The proliferation of pots there is worrying. There is no guarantee that the risers are long enough, leaving the marker just below the surface on both flood and ebb, and possibly with a floating line snaking on the surface at low water slack.
On the Anglesy side, just south of Plas Newedd there is another infestation.
Last week, returning from Liverpool at midnight we came across some very small (6") long sausage shaped floats off Bangor pier
I share your concern

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[philwebb]

I often sail over to Brittany and I think that the French have a good idea- any pot
buoys have to be marked with your boat registration number. Any unmarked pot
buoys can be removed by coastguards etc. Amateur fishermen are restricted in the number of pots they can lay (3 I think). The professional fishermen out there
use floats with a pole and a flag or some times large pink buoys.
The cheap polypropylene line that floats should either be outlawed or people
made to weight it down with lead weights.
In company with some friends I chartered a boat out of St Malo, and as we
sailed out in the main channel between the Grand Jardin lighthouse and some rocks we snagged a pot buoy - there was a flag marker but the helm did not see it. The boat stopped dead as the rope had caught between the top of the rudder and the hull. It was too risky to run the engine to reverse and there was no room to manoeuver . Luckily the boat had a sugarscoop stern and the marker was cut off. This was not the end of our predicament as another buoy then popped up-we were still attached. A rolling hitch was put on the pot line to try to pull it up on the winch-it proved to be too heavy.
Reluctantly the other marker was cut off as well and we were free. It was probably
an expensive loss for the boat that laid the pots, but better that than endanger our
boat and crew.
Regards, Phil

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[duncan]

Re: common misconception

many references are made to pots markers being 'incorrect' when underwater but as I understand it where the tides are strong (certain areas/springs) smaller markers are put on to avoid the tidal drag on the marker causing the line of pots to roll up in the tide. If you go out to the west of Poole at Springs when the tide is running you won't see many markers - as the tide slakens up they all pop!
Please do not think I am registering an opinion on this!


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[Johnjo]

You are correct in what you say.
Too much buoyancy at once and this will start the end pot rolling resulting in what is commonly
known in fishing circles as a bunch of grapes!....... bit of a bu--er to lift as well.

In my experience if you use lead line all the way down its to much weight to support plus the
fact that lead line will soon snag the bottom.

The answer is to use a combination of floaty and leadline, floaty on the bottom part.

Anyone not using this is IMHO a cowboy and not a professional fisherman !......

As to a fisherman losing a string of pots if you sink or cut his markers this is false no fisherman worth his salt will lose a string of pots.


GPS readings are taken off both ends of the string so even if both ends are lost he still knows where they are.
And are soon recovered by towing what we use to call a " Creep " something like a inverted christmas tree along the bottom as the rope between the pots is usually also floaty, again so not snag.

This is towed over the pots and will catch the rope between the pots. inconvenient but not a catastrophy! cowboys might not be aware of this means of retrieval, hopefully !.........

I use to space them at between 8 to 10 fathoms sometimes further , 40 on a string, depending on the depth of water. it all has to be lifted safely. Use to work around 400 pots.

Not taking any sides in this, just sharing my experience.

But agree as to the use of gallon cans or other inappropiate marking and as to the setting of them in shallow water with floaty line its bloody dangerous and the culprits should be prosecuted, again IMHO !



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[AuntyRinum]

Without doubt pots are the most likely hazard to ever effect small boat sailors in coastal waters. The weather can be predicted, pots can’t. They are the equivalent of a World War II minefield. In 30 years of sailing the most dangerous incidents I have ever had have all involved badly marked pots. Fisherman have a right to work and what would life be without lobster and crab, but they have no right to put peoples lives at risk. I once had a line from a pot fouled around the propeller in the Looe Channel in the middle of the night. The propeller wasn’t even in use at the time and the Looe Channel is dangerous enough in the dark without deliberately laid hazards.
It should be a legal requirement that pots should be marked with the owners name, clearly flagged, lit at night and should never be laid in restricted channels or harbour entrances.
What are we going to do about it?


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[Boathook]

I used to curse and swear about the markers as I sailed out of Christchurch (UK one!).
Over the last year though a lot of the pots now seem to be marked with black flags on poles so well done to the fishermen who do this and to the others please follow suit.

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[freeman]

The volume of rubbish especially plastic in the sea is staggering. All the way from Ushant to Falmouth. It included a 3 m metal pole.

Clearly the rubbish is of no concern to big ships but to yachts the prospect of rubbish around the prop is very high.

I do feel that a move to clean up the sea is long overdue.

many trawlers are idle and they are well placed to do the job

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[Gunfleet]

Hello John - from the time of your post I expect those sheep are still getting you up early! I agree completely about the mess we've made of the channel and north sea with rubbish. A visit to the beautiful deserted beaches of the Dutch Frisian Isles out of season is embarrassing. Tons of non-biodegradable plastic bags, tarpaulins and containers are washed up on the beaches by the prevailing wind. Of course nearly all of it is primarily English, as the labels witness

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[qsiv]

I wouldnt bother trying to lift it if I was caught, I'd simply liberate the bouy.

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[alant]

Can't entirely agree. Sail down from La Coruna to Gibraltar & the inshore track is definitely a 'mine field' even near harbour entrances. Small open boat fishermen lay them by the square metre - the only boats which seem to ignore them & charge right thru' are the larger offshore fishing boats. In addition on these coasts there are net fishing traps - not all lit.
What about the presumably French ones seen almost mid channel & in depths most of us would least suspect as a hazard area.

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