Please criticise my life raft logic

Just be carefull what you do with that corkscrew after drinking all that booze. It is only an INFLATABLE rubber raft after all!

If you were a cheapskate like me you would just practice your swimming in cold water at every opportunity /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Better to buy 2 cheap ones

Say the failure rate of a cheapy is 1 in 100 and the failure rate of a dear one is 1 in 200

Buying 2 cheap ones means the odds on having a failure is 1 in 10,000 whereas the odds of the expensive one is still 1 in 200

No contest
 
err, unless it's the same design flaw in both of the cheapies , then you'd have TWO floppy liferafts ! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Equally important is the standard of the service station.

Whilst getting my dinghy repaired in the caribbean I saw a life raft on the shop's floor. The main tubes were seperating, and the arch tube had completely broken adrift; it looked like the material was going porous. It would have never worked in anger.

I asked the company owner if he was going to condemm this sorry heap of plastic - "No, we'll stick it back together for another year. All the owners' want is the certificate and a canister".

My blood went cold. The repair on my dinghy as very poor and had to go back to this bodger. I'd chance an unserviced quality liferaft than a cheap one badly, though officially maintained.
 
Let's be honest, you don't really want to spend days in a liferaft do you, you'd only have to make a film about it. And the Titanic was much bigger than your boat with loads of liferafts, didn't do it much good! Much more heroic to stay on board until boat sinks below waves with you saluting whilst finishing final tot. So save 100% of cost and go without, if you die you won't hear the criticism and you'll be remembered for 10K+ postings, if you live you'll have the satisfaction of being richer and can write another 10K posts about your experience. Long live the Empire!!!
 
What type of sailing do you do,Is it coastal or offshore,how many people will be on board.These should be factored in to your decision.
I went on the Seasurvival course last year and am waiting until my nearly 3 year old liferaft has its first service so that I can see if there is an access ladder across the floor of the LR.If ther isn't one I will probably have to have a serious think about replacement as I could not get into the raft in the pool without one.
 
Speaking from personal experience I would avoid anything manufactured by Zodiac. They have a nasty habit of increasing the test pressures for servicing to a value greater than the design pressure - net result is the life rafts fall apart and you have to buy a new one.

Do I think they are dishonest in this regard?. In my personal opinion - and based purely on bitter practical experience of them - the answer is unfortunately yes.

Will I buy from then again? - No and I would advise everyone else to avoid them like the plague.
 
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What's the math behind that then ?

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It's yer basic probability theory, innit..

Two life rafts, each has a 1 in 100 chance of failing. What is the probability of both failing? You try the first one - 99 times out of 100 it's OK; 1 time in 100 it isn't. So then you try the second one - 1 time in 100 it fails as well, but there's only 1 chance in 100 that you'll need to try it, so the chances are 1 in 100 times 100, or 1 in 10,000.

So the maths is OK, but I'm not sure about the logic as the failure of the first life raft might not be noticed until it's too late to try the second - ie once you're in it.

Also the difference probably isn't just the failure rate, but also design factors that increase survivability (ladders, double floors, self-righting etc).

And if the servicing is a flat rate per life raft it works out more expensive in the long run.


It all comes down to your personal attitude to risk - one thing I'm learning on these forums is that people have very different views on this!
 
umm. A failure rate is a "one in ANY" number, so it is statistically possible (though unlikely) to have two consecutive failures of any two (same design) liferafts.

Which is why I have two liferafts by different makers.

Compare the Environment Agency 1 in 100yr flood maps. You might have a flood THIS year, and a flood NEXT year. They are both 1 in 100 yr occurences. Which is why people are so surprised when the river comes in the front door so frequently.
 
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
I have Bombard offshore 8 man liferaft. For what it is worth the French dealer who services the Liferaft - a guy I really trust - does not like the 3 year service interval. He points out that the environment of a yacht either external or in a locker is pretty nasty and that three years is a long time for any equipment.

On any small boat it is a good idea to double up equipment where possible hence the liferaft/dinghy debate which I feel to be a little foolish. How about doubling up a solas liferaft as a radar reflector? It could be stored up the mast and easily deployed by dropping it into the water - assuming your mast is less than 20m - or just pop off as the boat sinks. Good eh?
 
Life raft logic

View it like insurance. Let us say you get a cheap deal on your house insurance, and you never have a fire. You’ve saved yourself a bit of money, and feel good about the deal.

Let us suppose, though, that you do have a fire. The insurance company won’t pay because sub-section 5, para 8.111, line 432 clearly states in 3 point type that chimneys should be to EEC Standard 29/37 2002, and yours isn’t, and you should have told them. Or some other process designed to reduce the likelihood of them having to pay is applied, and you are left feeling miserable because not only has your house burned down, but you have no money to rebuild.

A bit like airlines, it is not how well they do when things are going well, it is how well they do when things are going wrong. “Good” insurance companies make an issue of how well they pay out, others make an issue of how cheap they are.

But we all make decisions based on our attitude to risk, and budget.

The same goes for liferafts. Whilst “most expensive” is not necessarily best, it often is – reputations are not gained for no reason. However it is unlikely that any UK liferaft will fail, if properly maintained, but depending on where you are sailing what is in it might make a difference.

The choice issue is usually prefaced with several questions, if you would like to call me, I’ll happily talk things over with you.
 
Excelent stuff peter

well, that's very good stuff.

I think one factor worth considering is that Indigo gets quite a lot of hard use in terms of being stared at, rained on and talked about for hours on end, and whereas some boats are unloved and sit in the marina most of the time cos their owners spend loads of time in their second homes abroad, Indigo is not at all unloved.
 
Entirely different matter then!

Firstly the raft needs to me no more than 300x200x50mm so that it can be discreetly hidden away in a locker. No unsightly pushpit mounting brackets too.

Then the container needs 27 coats of hi-gloss varnish, in case it becomes a topic of conversation.

Thirdly all on board should wear a tiny lapel mike, so that in the remote chance of an incident, all that is needed is a murmered "Beam me up...."
 
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