PLB/Flares

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saltyrob

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Hi Folks,

Most of our flares need replacing and as an alternative to spending a fair bit replacing them, I am thinking of purchasing a PLB with say an orange smoke and red handheld .My wife and I mostly sailing along the East Coast and are interested in relaxed cruisy style of sailing. Your thoughts would be welcome and any recommendations, Kannad Safelink Solo looks reasonable priced .
 
I ditched my out of date flares and bought an Odeo led 'flare'. I also have a PLB in the pocket of my lifejacket, which I always wear. I sail solo most of the time. My grab bag (small peli-case) has a SH851 DSC hand held in it.
 
Well, I've read all the debates and ponderered long and hard on this. I've settled for PLB ( worn round neck when single handed or by watchkeeper when with missus). Mobile VHF on LJ when single handed, or in cockpit for use by watchkeeper. A handy floating orange smoke for daylight MOB in sight of other vessels. An odeo LED flare for red nighttime use. A steamer scarer LED torch for alerting shipping. I really want rid of my pyrotechnics. P
 
They serve two different, but related purposes. Which you choose depends on what you see as the greatest risk. Flares are for attracting attention visually and perhaps helping rescuers home in on you. EPIRBs are to signal a boat is requiring assistance and once set off does not need any human attention, a PLB locates the position of an individual and needs to be activated and kept out of the water. Neither can be "seen" by other people or vessels, but a remote observer and neither are instant. A DSC radio performs a similar function to an EPIRB but range limited by VHF range. However will be heard instantly by both other vessels (assuming their radio is on) and shoreside observers who can arrange assistance.

So, for coastal cruising a DSC is most important, out of VHF range then an EPIRB or PLB (but recognising they are not "instant"). Flares of less importance given the other methods available, but have been proved to be useful in the past.

There is lobbying to get flares removed from compulsory list on boats that have compulsory requirements on the basis that other methods do everything a flare can. Not everybody agrees.
 
If someone invented flares today, they would be banned. Nasty dangerous things.

For coastal sailing a DSC VHF will be the best way of calling for help. Second to that is a PLB (with GPS built-in). The initial distress call from a PLB will be virtually instant but it may take a while to get a GPS fix. Also Falmouth Coastguard will carry out a few checks to try to avoid a false alarm before putting SAR into operation. (The GPS and CG delays should be in parallel, so not too bad.)

Having said all that, there was an incident last year when a skipper went MOB. His companion was a non-sailor, couldn't stop the boat and couldn't work the radio. However she did set off a couple of flares that were seen and responded to.

You pays your money and you takes your choice. My choice is to not carry flares, though I may back off a little and put a couple of orange smokes on board.

PS I carry a steamer-scarer as well.
 
trapezeartist said:
Second to that is a PLB (with GPS built-in). The initial distress call from a PLB will be virtually instant but it may take a while to get a GPS fix. [...] (The GPS and CG delays should be in parallel, so not too bad.)
Click to expand...

Are you sure you're not thinking of the delay from the older Doppler system? My PLB transmits its initial signal 60 seconds after being turned on, the idea being that it may well have obtained a fix in that time. If not, the signal with fix will almost certainly be sent in the next couple of minutes - describing it as "in parallel" with the Coastguard phoning my mum sounds like you're imagining a much longer delay. In self-test mode my PLB gets a fix quite quickly (unfortunately I didn't time it) from just outside my back door, which is a known poor GPS location due to surrounding high walls.

Pete
 
We've got a PLB but kept a few flares and couple of smokes on board. Considering getting rid of the flares (we'll probably keep the smokes).

Not sure how the French authorities might view that tho...?

Before sailing to Norway a couple of years ago we invested in a NASA mobi. As we are often sailing two up I think if one of us went over the side then, even if they set off the PLB, chances are better for picking them up alive if an alarm goes off on the boat. The fobs are activated at all times when we are offshore and stay in the pocket of the oilskins.

One investment I am thinking of making is a couple of those MOB AIS transmitters to remove tide etc. from the search pattern. Basically so SWMBO can be woken by the alarm, look at the plotter and return to where I am, rather than where she thinks I might be. The time between being woken by an alarm, figuring out what has happened and disengaging self steering to start a search might leave quite a large search area. I like the idea the searcher knows exactly where the MOB is.

Before I plunk down the cash has anyone experience of these things Recommendations? I know that gadgets are not in themselves security and you can't buy your way out of trouble but the MOB AIS thing seems like it might be worthwhile.
 
We carried flares, big orange smokes, parachute flares and white handheld flares all for a different purpose. We also had an EPIRB which transmits for twice the time, 48 hours, of a PLB and it can take two hours for a satellite to pick up a signal. They do different things as said

But if you don't sail far from land, not at night and in light/medium conditions plus always have VHF contact you don't need either. MOB is avoided by clipping on with a harness and two different length tethers if bad weather comes along.
 
prv said:
Are you sure you're not thinking of the delay from the older Doppler system? My PLB transmits its initial signal 60 seconds after being turned on, the idea being that it may well have obtained a fix in that time. If not, the signal with fix will almost certainly be sent in the next couple of minutes - describing it as "in parallel" with the Coastguard phoning my mum sounds like you're imagining a much longer delay. In self-test mode my PLB gets a fix quite quickly (unfortunately I didn't time it) from just outside my back door, which is a known poor GPS location due to surrounding high walls.

Pete
Click to expand...

I'm only going on what I have been told. It was information that seemed plausible because GPS acquisition can be very slow from a cold start. Normally GPS units rely having an approximate position to start calculating from (last know position in the case of a boat or car, triangulation of mobile phone masts in the case of a smart-phone).
 
trapezeartist said:
I'm only going on what I have been told. It was information that seemed plausible because GPS acquisition can be very slow from a cold start.
Click to expand...

Well, there's no mystery about it. You say you've ditched flares, so presumably you have an EPIRB or PLB. How long did it take to get a GPS fix when you last did a full self-test?

Pete
 
saltyrob said:
Hi Folks,

Most of our flares need replacing and as an alternative to spending a fair bit replacing them, I am thinking of purchasing a PLB with say an orange smoke and red handheld .My wife and I mostly sailing along the East Coast and are interested in relaxed cruisy style of sailing. Your thoughts would be welcome and any recommendations, Kannad Safelink Solo looks reasonable priced .
Click to expand...
I have to have flares as my boat is coded, but if it wasn't i would do as you suggest and ditch the rockets. Worth having smoke. Maybe LEDs could take the place of the red handheld but there's no point me doing the research.
 
I do carry flares in my boat. A double lot which i rotate every 2 years
I also have EPIRB etc
Of course these are no good of i go overboard when single handing which is 90% of the time
Therefore, as i always wear a lifejacket, i have a PLB with inbuilt GPS, PLUS a small pack of red mini flares. ( about £45-00)The plb & the flares just about go in the attachable pouch on my spinnlock life jacket
If ypu are thinking of not buying a full pack then the mini flares ( 10 in a pack) are a stop gap for coastal sailing
 
trapezeartist said:
I wasn't aware that the self-test would indicate GPS acquisition speed. I'll read the book at the first opportunity, and then run the test accordingly.
Click to expand...

Mine is the FastFind 220; others may vary but probably not all that much.

The 220 has two kinds of self-test. The short test just does an electronic check of the internal components, whereas the long test includes acquiring a GPS signal. It gives a long flash when it has a fix, so you will know how long it takes.

To conserve battery life, only a limited number of long tests are permitted (from memory it's 8 or 10, something like that). I do one each winter, at the same time as I'm servicing the lifejackets, so I won't reach that number over the six year life of the battery. They recommend you do a short test monthly, though in practice I don't. I don't think there's a limit on the number of those.

Pete
 
prv said:
Mine is the FastFind 220; others may vary but probably not all that much.

The 220 has two kinds of self-test. The short test just does an electronic check of the internal components, whereas the long test includes acquiring a GPS signal. It gives a long flash when it has a fix, so you will know how long it takes.

To conserve battery life, only a limited number of long tests are permitted (from memory it's 8 or 10, something like that). I do one each winter, at the same time as I'm servicing the lifejackets, so I won't reach that number over the six year life of the battery. They recommend you do a short test monthly, though in practice I don't. I don't think there's a limit on the number of those.

Pete
Click to expand...

Mine too, so obviously I haven't been reading the book of words carefully enough. I'm off on the summer cruise shortly so will make sure it gets a long self-test before then. Thanks for the heads-up.
 
I'm pleased to say I was totally wrong when I said the GPS takes a long time to acquire a fix. I have a McMurdo 210 and I just ran the long self-test that prv mentioned. It got it's fix in about 35-40 seconds. :)
 
But you will have done that test with it static and optimally aligned for the SATs. Move 200nm and get in the water and see how long it takes.
 
Well I suspect its not that the EPIRB manufacturers think it might break but I think SOLAS may require it is tested monthly on commercial vessels.

But... Your house smoke alarm recommends weekly testing and possibly an annual smoke test. Your work fire alarm is tested periodically.

So I work in a high risk industry for fire. Weekly test of spinners, door closures etc. Annual test of detectors.

Can't think of a detector ever failing.

If you sail every weekend of the year you sail roughly 100 days. If you test every 5 weeks the longest you could be sailing with a faulty unit is 10 days. If unit has a life of 5years and 1 in 100 units might fail in that time... That's 1 failure in 500 unit years. If 1 unit year is 100 sails and 10 of those could be faulty unknown that is 10faults in 500,000 trips. So 1 faulty day in 50,000 trips. Now if you only test every six months and you fail the next day that is 50 trips its failed for that makes 1 faulty in 10,000 trips...

?
 
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