Plastic plumbing

[Stemar]

Ductile Iron Pipe Research Association: "PVC is dangerous"

Well, they would say that, wouldn't they...

Not entirely sure ductile iron pipe's a good idea on a boat either.

You can argue about standards til the cows come home, but I reckon anything you buy for mains water plumbing in Toolstation or Screwfix will be fine as far as water safety is concerned.

 

[pvb]

I'm wondering why you say that.

I'm no expert but I am aware that not all tubes/[pipes are suitable for drinking water. If a product has WRAS approval on land why wouldn't it have approval on boats?

Can you elaborate?

Certainly. WRAS approval doesn't apply to private water supplies. Boats have private water supplies.

 

[pvb]

You might be right but then again you may be wrong. (When it comes to drinking water I prefer to play it safe and use product that has been approved by a reputable body).

It appears the jury is still out but:

It is recommended that materials, chemicals, and processes connected to the home water distribution network are rigorously evaluated before use to determine the potential to cause significant levels of VOCs contamination. In addition, extending the curing period substantially reduced the degree of leaching of these organic contaminants from the PVC pipes into water. However, further work is necessary to investigate different contact periods and elucidate the role of disinfectants in altering leached organic compounds.
Leaching of Organic Toxic Compounds from PVC Water Pipes in Medina Al-Munawarah, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia

I'm right; most push-fit pipe is PE, rather than PVC.

 

[pvb]

You can argue about standards til the cows come home, but I reckon anything you buy for mains water plumbing in Toolstation or Screwfix will be fine as far as water safety is concerned.

I reckon you're right.

 

[coopec]

Ductile Iron Pipe Research Association: "PVC is dangerous"

Well, they would say that, wouldn't they...

Not entirely sure ductile iron pipe's a good idea on a boat either.

You can argue about standards til the cows come home, but I reckon anything you buy for mains water plumbing in Toolstation or Screwfix will be fine as far as water safety is concerned.

The advice of advice of Ductile Iron Pipe Research Association: "PVC is dangerous" with red exclamation marks ie !!! was meant to be i.e.tongue in cheek. Sorry!

I've seen some people using ordinary garden hose on their boat plumbing and that is ....wrong! AND some PVC tubing can leak lead.

 

[shaunksb]

I replaced the original PVC pipe in my 30'er inc calorifier a couple of years ago.

It had been jointed and patched and extended and I found seven different weeps! The pump was driving me mad switching off and on.

A bit of wriggling around under boards and in the locker and it was fine.

15mm pipe, use a cutter and the proper inserts.

Simples...

____________________________

 

[coopec]

I replaced the original PVC pipe in my 30'er inc calorifier a couple of years ago.

It had been jointed and patched and extended and I found seven different weeps! The pump was driving me mad switching off and on.

A bit of wriggling around under boards and in the locker and it was fine.

15mm pipe, use a cutter and the proper inserts.

Simples...

____________________________

Nice to read a positive, pleasant comment!???

 

[Rum Run]

Thanks all, I can see that one of these systems is going to be the way forward.

 

[Solent Sailor]

My 50 footer (MoBo) had Hep2O plumbing fitted throughout from new (built 1997). I've had her for two years and haven't found a leak or obviously replaced pipe yet. I have found a leak on a fitting that I tried to bodge (excuses include being away from home, limited hardware facilities in Brittany etc!) but that was down to trying to use non Hep2o fittings. 15mm plastic fittings will fit each other, but they are not designed to and some tolerances do differ, so try to stick with one system. Mine has a backbone of 22m pipe with 15mm branches, but there is quite a lot of piping on board and you may well manage with just 15mm.

 

[Tintin]

multilayer pipe is currently the best on the market, however it required an expensive tool to crimp it , if done correctly it wont leak

I sell a lot of multilayer pipe for underfloor heating. To my knowledge you can't get 15mm but 16mm is available.

You can use press fittings, which need an expensive tool, but you can also get compression fittings.

The benefit of MLCP is that when you bend it it holds it's shape.

You can get 16mm to 15mm compression adapters too, which may make life easier.

PM me, I have thousands.

 

[ip485]

Forgive me but why would you want to do this to yourself for a refit? I am sure there are some benefits over flexible, but I am struggling to think how they out weigh all the extra time and effort fitting rigid, especially on an older boat that was never designed with rigid runs in mind.

 

[lw395]

I sell a lot of multilayer pipe for underfloor heating. To my knowledge you can't get 15mm but 16mm is available.

You can use press fittings, which need an expensive tool, but you can also get compression fittings.

The benefit of MLCP is that when you bend it it holds it's shape.

You can get 16mm to 15mm compression adapters too, which may make life easier.

PM me, I have thousands.

What exactly is 'multilayer' pipe?
The Speedfit 15mm has several layers when you cut it?

 

[Tintin]

What exactly is 'multilayer' pipe?
The Speedfit 15mm has several layers when you cut it?

Plastic pipe like Speedfit is, in truth, multilayer (pex - adhesive - EVOH oxygen barrier - adhesive- pex), but in plumbing and heating "multilayer" pipe refers generally to MLCP (multi layer composite pioe), AluPlas, Alupex, alupert - it has many names.

Basically pex or pert - aluminium oxygen barrier - pex or pert.

EVOH is not 100% oxygen barrier but it complies enough with the standards, whereas the aluminium layer (lapped, z-folded or butt-welded) is 100% barrier.

More info at this link, and even more at the datasheets Underfloor heating pipe | Warm water underfloor heating systems

 

[alan_d]

Certainly. WRAS approval doesn't apply to private water supplies. Boats have private water supplies.

Yes, but surely you are missing the point. If something is approved by an appropriate authority for use with potable water on land, is it not reasonable to infer that it is probably safer to use it for the same purpose on board, compared with something which has not been so approved?

 

[coopec]

Yes, but surely you are missing the point. If something is approved by an appropriate authority for use with potable water on land, is it not reasonable to infer that it is probably safer to use it for the same purpose on board, compared with something which has not been so approved?

No point in arguing with PVB he is never wrong. He's expert on all matter boating- just ask him!! ?? (No offense meant PVB)

 

[pvb]

Yes, but surely you are missing the point. If something is approved by an appropriate authority for use with potable water on land, is it not reasonable to infer that it is probably safer to use it for the same purpose on board, compared with something which has not been so approved?

No, with respect, you're missing the point. If you read the thread, you'll see that Coopec suggested WRAS approval was necessary. I replied that WRAS approval doesn't apply to boats. Coopec challenged that and asked why. That's when I explained the reason.

In actual fact, virtually every bit of push-fit pipe you can buy in the UK will have WRAS approval, as most of it is used in houses (where WRAS approval is necessary).

It's also fact that push-fit pipe is invariably PE-based, and Coopec's fascination with the supposed dangers of PVC are irrelevant.

 

[pvb]

No point in arguing with PVB he is never wrong. He's expert on all matter boating- just ask him!! ?? (No offense meant PVB)

And no offence taken, Clive, although I can't claim to be an expert. I'm just a simple engineer who's spent too much time fiddling with boats over the last 50 years or so. One thing I did learn on these forums is that, if I don't know the answer, I don't post. There are some people who don't know the answers who just randomly post bits they've found on Google, with no idea of relevance.

 

[Tintin]

WRAS is basically a "pay to play" approval that has managed to become quasi-statutory in UK.

It doesn't apply to boats.

Any pipe, approved as suitable for potable/ drinking water, or manufactured to the relevant EN or ISO standard is fine for boats.

 

[Tintin]

WRAS is basically a "pay to play" approval that has managed to become statutory in UK.

It doesn't apply to boats.

Any pipe, approved as suitable for potable/ drinking water, or manufactured to the relevant EN or ISO standard is fine for boats.

The pipe manufacturer has to demonstrate compliance with the EN / ISO standard, and in the UK WRAS is an easy way to do this.

But a manufacturer can also do this by a declaration of conformity.

 

[lw395]

Plastic pipe like Speedfit is, in truth, multilayer (pex - adhesive - EVOH oxygen barrier - adhesive- pex), but in plumbing and heating "multilayer" pipe refers generally to MLCP (multi layer composite pioe), AluPlas, Alupex, alupert - it has many names.

Basically pex or pert - aluminium oxygen barrier - pex or pert.

EVOH is not 100% oxygen barrier but it complies enough with the standards, whereas the aluminium layer (lapped, z-folded or butt-welded) is 100% barrier.

More info at this link, and even more at the datasheets Underfloor heating pipe | Warm water underfloor heating systems

Thanks for that, cleared something up for me.