plane or displacement speed at night

[boaterbaz]

A friend new to boating has asked me to show him the ropes with his 28 foot planing weekender. Now, as a yottie I am happy to sail overnight if the passage plan requires.

My question to those with more high speed experience than I is, if doing a night passage do you go at planing speed or slow down to a displacement speed? My gut feeling is to slow down as I do not fancy charging along not being able to see dahn buoys or floaters. BUT, at the lower speed a planing hull is dreadfully uncomfortable.

Maybe plan C and only do day runs at planing speed is the way forward. The benefit of the forums wisdom would be appreciated.

 

[rafiki_]

Others on here are much more experienced than me, but I would always use the boat like my car, go at the pace I am happy with visibility. While there are always the high tech aids like radar/AIS etc, in a 28 ft boat, if you hit a bit of flotsam at speed, it is going to hurt!

 

[Divemaster1]

All depends on your and the crew experience, coupled with familiarity with boat, area, current weather systems, traffic and Nav Aids and crew's familiarity with those.....

4 + miles offshore, calm, clear summer night with, I'd be happy to do 18 knots + .... but know boat and Nav Aids well... If less familiar, or worse condition, I'd slow down to slow planning (13 - 16 knot)... or displacement speed if conditions dictated.

There is no single "correct" answer to your question as all depends on the above .... I did night nav in the Solent at 22 knots and got full scores from instructor during my Coastal Skipper / Yachtmaster practical, whilst colleague did it at 9 knots and was a borderline pass on the same night and boat.

 

[Elessar]

A friend new to boating has asked me to show him the ropes with his 28 foot planing weekender. Now, as a yottie I am happy to sail overnight if the passage plan requires.

My question to those with more high speed experience than I is, if doing a night passage do you go at planing speed or slow down to a displacement speed? My gut feeling is to slow down as I do not fancy charging along not being able to see dahn buoys or floaters. BUT, at the lower speed a planing hull is dreadfully uncomfortable.

Maybe plan C and only do day runs at planing speed is the way forward. The benefit of the forums wisdom would be appreciated.

Almost always d speed at night for me. If visibility perfect it is sometimes possible to speed up. But plan at d speed.

And its not uncomfortable. Just different to the motion you are used to with your great big keel.

 

[superheat6k]

For me 7-8 knots is quite enough in the dark. Too many unlit racing marks and other objects. If you stray from the more heavily used channels you are playing Russian Roulette with pot markers. At displacement speed IMHO the boat has a better chance of deflecting a pot marker to one side or the other, on the plane it is more likely to go straight under and snag up. Even on a clear daytime run from say the Solent to Weymouth I will spot at least 2 or 3 pot markers a few feet on the beam, and way too late to take corrective action, yet will acknowledge probably several dozen uncomfortably close.

As Rafiki mentions hitting something solid at higher speed could be quite an impact, but I guess offshore and in deeper water then a slight increase would be OK, but not to planing speed.

 

[oceanfroggie]

All depends on your and the crew experience, coupled with familiarity with boat, area, current weather systems, traffic and Nav Aids and crew's familiarity with those.....

4 + miles offshore, calm, clear summer night with, I'd be happy to do 18 knots + .... but know boat and Nav Aids well... If less familiar, or worse condition, I'd slow down to slow planning (13 - 16 knot)... or displacement speed if conditions dictated.

There is no single "correct" answer to your question as all depends on the above ....

+1

As said, it depends on the conditions, but in the right conditions I'm happy to plane on night passages if I need that speed. Generally I like to be at least 5 miles offshore to avoid pots, and would not plane without working radar. Generally don't plane inshore at night if there is any possibility of small unlit boat traffic out late at night (ie open fishing boats, kids messing about in dinghies, etc). Then there are some nights when the conditions are calm with a lot of ambient light. With a dark cockpit you can see quite far on calm water some nights. Radar is an absolute must though. You don't want to run over some dingbats out late in an unlit small craft.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

For me it's displacement speed only. Not only do you have to keep a visual look out for obstructions but you also have to watch the radar as well and I wouldn't feel safe doing both at planing speed. It's worth doing a few night passages deliberately just to get experience because night passages can be disorientating. I know I found my first night passage very disorientating and I made a big navigational error which could have been disastrous. You also need to make a more meticulous passage plan than you might do for a day passage

 

[boaterbaz]

Thanks for the replies guys, you pretty much confirm my own thoughts on high speed at night. Can still dream of that perfect starlit night, 25 knots with a phosphrence wake. The one trip that makes the season worthwhile.

 

[gravygraham]

Can still dream of that perfect starlit night . . . with a phosphrence wake.

Now that's one magical moment. Going ashore in the inflatable last but one summer gave us a super display.

 

[Firefly625]

It's a funny one really, I have probably done over 10 channel crossings at night (I'm sure that will not be a lot to some folk!), all of them sailing so around 6knots, however I would just add that when you are sailing at night there is very little you can see especially if it's a log or some other non illuminated item floating in the water. The only benefit is as everyone else has said, striking something at 20knots has much greater effect than at 6! But you can't see anything unless it's illuminated whatever speed you are going!

 

[paultallett]

I've only ever done 2 night passages and both have been short hops as the weather was calmer.

Personally I can't imagine planning in the dark. I totally hear the argument of a moonlit night and good visibility. I'm sure for those that have been lucky enough to be out there on times like that, its what boating dreams are made of......

But......

I take my family and boats safety seriously and knowing I'm in the hands of the gods with pots and flotsam, D speed is the only thing I'd consider. Breakdown or snagging in the dark would make a tense situation 10 times worse.

 

[burgundyben]

My boat is planing at about 14 knots, that's what I tend to do at night, she's still a little nose up, but steering is good and motion comfy.

 

[RogerRat]

I totally hear the argument of a moonlit night and good visibility. I'm sure for those that have been lucky enough to be out there on times like that, its what boating dreams are made of......

But......

I take my family and boats safety seriously and knowing I'm in the hands of the gods with pots and flotsam, D speed is the only thing I'd consider. Breakdown or snagging in the dark would make a tense situation 10 times worse.

It's actually quite surprising how often the 'Silver Road' appears around moonlit springs, hence, 'Bombers Moon'. Visibility, if not ruined by other light sources from shore, cabin, plotter, steam lights etc. (flack) can be surprisingly good, even black top/flag markers on pots show well as silhouettes.

I know quite a few people who are as happy out at night as during the day. I understand it's not for everyone, my other half feels very vulnerable where as I quite enjoy it. Agree with disorientation too, especially if you're going slowly as mental dead reckoning goes wrong, especially in familiar waters or headlands or lit buoys can get mixed up, you have to take care that's all. I agree on speed where you feel comfortable.

Also, be careful with the radar, know your own well and practice in good visibility, those little unlit tenders and fishing boats don't always show up on radar, if they're unlit, they probably have no reflector and an outboard has little or no reflection. They can and do go into 'stealth mode'!

RR

 

[oceanfroggie]

Its horses for courses. As long as we pace ourselves to our own personal comfort and experience levels, within the prevailing conditions, then safety should not be compromised.

 

[colingr]

Low planing speed for me but only if I know the route well. I tend to go out during the day and plot a safe track so that I can return the same way knowing that I'll avoid the unlit stuff. If I'm unsure I'll drop off the plane and play safe.

 

[Floating Preferably]

Yes, for me it is definitely displacement at night. A few years ago I made the error of watching a large Seagull flying close and parallel to the boat, taking my eyes off the water at 21knots in daylight in the Solent for I guess between 10 and 15 seconds. In that time I travelled 300ft -400ft, and hit a log the size of a railway sleeper in Western Solent. The resultant damage to propeller and shaft etc was around £1000, but it could have been a lot worse. Moonlit nights can be beautiful, but need to be treated with caution.

 

[Piers]

I used to avoid night passaging for fear of pots, buoys and all the hidden 'lumps' you may find. That's until I fitted a good thermal imaging camera which displays a black and white picture as if it's daylight. Pots can be see at 500m - no probs. Really brilliant and inspires such confidence. Night passage making now has no issues for me.

 

[Floating Preferably]

I used to avoid night passaging for fear of pots, buoys and all the hidden 'lumps' you may find. That's until I fitted a good thermal imaging camera which displays a black and white picture as if it's daylight. Pots can be see at 500m - no probs. Really brilliant and inspires such confidence. Night passage making now has no issues for me.

That sounds like very sensible use of technology. Nice added protection for Play d'eau, much admired by me when she was outside at Shamrock Quay.

 

[Solitaire]

My question to those with more high speed experience than I is, if doing a night passage do you go at planing speed or slow down to a displacement speed? My gut feeling is to slow down as I do not fancy charging along not being able to see dahn buoys or floaters.

The answer is simple! It is covered under IRPCS.

"C.1 RULE 6 Safe Speed

Every vessel shall at all times proceed at a safe speed so that she can take proper and effective action to avoid collision and be stopped within a distance appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions. In determining a safe speed the following factors shall be among those taken into account:

(a) By all vessels:

(i) the state of visibility;

(ii) the traffic density including concentrations of fishing vessels or any other vessels;

(iii) the manoeuvrability of the vessel with special reference to stopping distance and turning ability in the prevailing conditions;

(iv) at night the presence of background light such as from shore lights or from back scatter of her own lights;

(v) the state of wind, sea and current, and the proximity of navigational hazards;

(vi) the draught in relation to the available depth of water.

(b) Additionally, by vessels with operational radar:

(i) the characteristics, efficiency and limitations of the radar equipment;

(ii) any constraints imposed by the radar range scale in use;

(iii) the effect on radar detection of the sea state, weather and other sources of interference;

(iv) the possibility that small vessels, ice and other floating objects may not be detected by radar at an adequate range;

(v) the number, location and movement of vessels detected by radar;

(vi) the more exact assessment of the visibility that may be possible when radar is used to determine the range of vessels or other objects in the vicinity."

Plus, the most important thing to take with you one the water is...............................................Common sense!

 

[MapisM]

I usually don't slow down one iota when cruising at night.
Then again, that's one advantage of being used to cruise between 8 and 9 knots also in daylight...

For those who think it can be safe NOT to slow down with planing boats, I wouldn't disagree in principle, if it weren't that I have seen a massive gearbox on an 80 footer completely exploded.
The boat was actually cruising in daylight, 20kts or so, and one shaft grabbed a long and quite substantial floating line.
The helmsman didn't see anything, till the line was wrapped enough around the shaft to the point of locking it instantly, blowing the gearrbox.
Now, it's pretty obvious that such line, which wasn't noticed in daylight, had no chance to be seen at night.
But at least, it's extremely unlikely that a sudden lock of the shaft could have blown the gearbox, and that can make a difference worth a 5 figures damage....