Planar diesel heater, from Russia, like Eberspacher - anyone used one?

[PetiteFleur]

Planar diesel heater, from Russia, new complete kit for boats, on ebay for £367 + £35 postage... looks like eberspacher/webasto. Has anyone got one? Or experience of using one? Would probably have to pay import charges as well.

 

[David2452]

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?456259-Boat-heating/page3&highlight=planar Post 21. I have had a look at them.

 

[ghostlymoron]

I've read that the power requirements of this heater are much higher than eber/webbie etc. That's an important consideration so I don't think the lower price is worth it.
One thing that appeals though is the 'crude' is simple nature of the thing. I think ebers are over complicated which makes them expensive to repair although, if we follow David's instructions on installation, those should not be necessary.

 

[pvb]

I've read that the power requirements of this heater are much higher than eber/webbie etc. That's an important consideration so I don't think the lower price is worth it.
One thing that appeals though is the 'crude' is simple nature of the thing. I think ebers are over complicated which makes them expensive to repair although, if we follow David's instructions on installation, those should not be necessary.

Yes, the 4kW Planar uses 50% more electricity than the equivalent Eberspacher. Assuming the Planar has all the desired safety features, it would surely be about as complicated as an Eberspacher, wouldn't it?

 

[Otter]

Yes, the 4kW Planar uses 50% more electricity than the equivalent Eberspacher. Assuming the Planar has all the desired safety features, it would surely be about as complicated as an Eberspacher, wouldn't it?

Eber's use scraps of 12v so 50% more is no biggy.

 

[pvb]

Eber's use scraps of 12v so 50% more is no biggy.

Perhaps. An extra 2A drain when it's running might not seem a lot, but it all adds up. But I guess you motorsailer people have lots of spare charge from running the engine!

 

[Otter]

Perhaps. An extra 2A drain when it's running might not seem a lot, but it all adds up. But I guess you motorsailer people have lots of spare charge from running the engine!

True that

 

[skyflyer]

Planar 2D specs say

• Heat output; kW : 0.8-1.8.0
• Fuel consumption; l/h (gal/h): 0.10-0.24 (0.03-0.06)
• Nominal supply voltage; V: 12 or 24
• Power consumption; W (A): 10-29 (0.8-2.42)

2.42 amps to deliver 1800W of heat doesn't seem too bad [at least, not compared to my (admittedly old) Eber D3LC.] Sure mine takes 20A for 30 secs or so whilst it starts so if the Planar does the same then if you run it for four hours (say) the total draw is about 2.4 x4 plus 20/120 = 9.76Ahr - not exactly going to kill your battery?

For the savings involved you could buy a dedicated battery just for your heater!

edited to add: Just found the D2 specs, at 1800W it takes 1.82 amps (at 12v) - so thats 32% more, but in the grand scheme of things? If you haven't gone to LED lighting your cabin lights are probably taking more than that!

 

[Gordonmc]

I might be tempted, but there is a line from the .pdf for the 4 Kw Planar which has me baffled.
"When exhaust pipe is installed it must be positioned so that it is NOT blowing upwind."
Does this mean the heater has to be positioned higher than the skin fitting?
If so it appears to rule out most boat applications where a swan-neck on the exhaust is sufficient.
Or am I missing something?

 

[skyflyer]

I might be tempted, but there is a line from the .pdf for the 4 Kw Planar which has me baffled.
"When exhaust pipe is installed it must be positioned so that it is NOT blowing upwind."
Does this mean the heater has to be positioned higher than the skin fitting?
If so it appears to rule out most boat applications where a swan-neck on the exhaust is sufficient.
Or am I missing something?

Doesn't that just mean that it shouldn't be blowing INTO wind, so that the exhaust fumes don't get blown back into the cabin, or the fresh air intake?

Ebers claim that the exhaust contains very low CO levels, way below the lethal level and even below the level that generally would cause a headache. I'd be interested to know if Planars are the same?

I thought I'd play safe by ducting fresh air to the Eber intake, so even if the exhaust ever leaked there was no possibility of the intake air containing exhaust fumes. However the 2m of duct caused sufficient restriction to the air flow that I was getting overheat cut-outs (possibly in combination with the fact I had re-insulated all the hot air ducting to a high degree, but either way removing the intake duct cured the problem)

 

[Hydrozoan]

I might be tempted, but there is a line from the .pdf for the 4 Kw Planar which has me baffled.
"When exhaust pipe is installed it must be positioned so that it is NOT blowing upwind."
Does this mean the heater has to be positioned higher than the skin fitting?
If so it appears to rule out most boat applications where a swan-neck on the exhaust is sufficient.
Or am I missing something?

I had noticed that line, which also appears in the brochure for the Planar Heater 2DM-12 GP model.

 

[Mrnotming]

Hi Owen & OP's
Interesting gear.
I see night water heater is mentioned as another kit?
Could this be configured with small radiators (perhaps plastic) and say 15mm piping and circulation pump?
Thanks Owen if you can advise.

 

[owen-cox]

I might be tempted, but there is a line from the .pdf for the 4 Kw Planar which has me baffled.
"When exhaust pipe is installed it must be positioned so that it is NOT blowing upwind."
Does this mean the heater has to be positioned higher than the skin fitting?
If so it appears to rule out most boat applications where a swan-neck on the exhaust is sufficient.
Or am I missing something?

This line I think is a mistranslated Russian sentence( I am working on the brochures I have to read correctly in English) it is saying that the air inlet and outlet should be on the same side of a vessel or vehicle to prevent the fan struggling if they were n opposite sides where wind could blow into the exhaust and push combustion fumes the wrong way. If you have the recommended I let and outlet skin fittings combustion air cannot be fed into the circulating air and as you say a swan neck is definitely needed and should be installed as such.

 

[owen-cox]

There is the Binar 5d which may be installed as you suggest. It is designed as an engine preheated for vehicles but also has an option in the menu to control by air temperature and so would maintain radiators and a calorifier hot with water temperature control or radiators via air temperature control. It is also possible to have as an extra a GSM/ modem with GPS location so it is possible to remotely control the heating and locate the boat via text or an app on smartphone.

 

[owen-cox]

I will request information from the factory on CO levels but as the combustion system is dry similar I imagine they would be very close to the same.
The planar has a more powerful fan than some units and so should have no problem with overheating with return suction fitted to the circulating cabin air.

 

[Hydrozoan]

This line I think is a mistranslated Russian sentence( I am working on the brochures I have to read correctly in English) it is saying that the air inlet and outlet should be on the same side of a vessel or vehicle to prevent the fan struggling if they were n opposite sides where wind could blow into the exhaust and push combustion fumes the wrong way. If you have the recommended I let and outlet skin fittings combustion air cannot be fed into the circulating air and as you say a swan neck is definitely needed and should be installed as such.

Thank you for the explanation; I presume an amended sentence will appear in due course.

 

[Sandmartin]

I have just ordered a PLANAR 4Kw and will be fitting when it arrives. My Eberspacher finaly died, and after 10 years of allways wondering if it would start when switchen on, I was not going to have another Eberspatcher. So - fingers crossed.

 

[Autoterm]

I've read that the power requirements of this heater are much higher than eber/webbie etc. That's an important consideration so I don't think the lower price is worth it.
One thing that appeals though is the 'crude' is simple nature of the thing. I think ebers are over complicated which makes them expensive to repair although, if we follow David's instructions on installation, those should not be necessary.

Here is our data after testing Planars for power requirements
Planar 2D 12/24 - 17W
Planar 44D 12/24 - 40W
Planar 4D 12/24 38W

Airtronic D2 - 23W (from the manual)
Airtronic D4 - 40W (from the manual)

 

[David2452]

I might be tempted, but there is a line from the .pdf for the 4 Kw Planar which has me baffled.
"When exhaust pipe is installed it must be positioned so that it is NOT blowing upwind."
Does this mean the heater has to be positioned higher than the skin fitting?
If so it appears to rule out most boat applications where a swan-neck on the exhaust is sufficient.
Or am I missing something?

I shouldn't really but I will answer that, nothing to do with translation and is very simply that there is no proper marine manual, this instruction is a hangover from the vehicle manual and means as with all other heaters the exhaust outlet should point backwards (or down wind) on the vehicle to prevent back pressure during operation and water ingress when running or not. It is best ignored and a proper skin fitting used just as with other evap heaters.

 

[David2452]

Hi Owen & OP's
Interesting gear.
I see night water heater is mentioned as another kit?
Could this be configured with small radiators (perhaps plastic) and say 15mm piping and circulation pump?
Thanks Owen if you can advise.

Yes and no, all manufacturers make a coolant unit either as a pre or aux heater and marine kits are available however 15mm tube is inadequate due to the low volume and coolant. The marine install manuals for all these specify 22mm circuit with the usual upstands to the radiators in 15mm, I fit loads of them to narrowboats and they are quite effective when set up correctly, one point if you are using matrix is to ensure there is a coolant temperature trigger output from the boiler and use it via a relay so the blowers can't come on until the system is up to temperature or it may well never reach efficient levels. Also it is vital that the load on the boiler is at around 10% higher than the output or cycling and reduced service intervals will result.