pitfalls of buying a older boat

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captaindan

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www.discountfascia.com
hi
I am looking for some advice on the pitfalls or pros of buying a really old motorboat 20 or 25 years (sunseeker or similar) as apposed to a second hand say searay 290 or similar around 98 to 2000age. it looks like you get a lot of boat for your money with deisal engines and more seaworthy boat sunsseker or am I being slightly deluded? just wondered what peoples thoughts are on this or would my money be better dspent on a later boat.
 
I wouldn't say you're 'slightly deluded', there are some fantastic looking older boats out there but you're right to be cautious. And I think everyone here will have some good advice to offer. I personally think the main issue maybe the overall mechanical history and whether the engines are original. You might find that after 20/25 years, they've come to the end of their useful life and re-engining maybe be a consideration - and very expensive. If nothing else, it might be worth budgeting to have them completely overhauled for your piece of mind. Other issues might be whether any moisture has gotten into the structural fabric of the boat, causing expensive repairs, but all checkable prior to purchase with damp meters etc - well to a degree anyway. Would be interested in what you're looking at?
 
Regardless of makes, year and model you need to get your priorities sorted and state your requirements & budget (investment and operating costs). Only then can you begin a search and given that you are looking for boats of some age, the fact that no boat is better than the tlc it received will take you through several viewings and surveys to state actual value.
If you are not into DIY, age is of concern and a newer boat might be more interesting than an older posh at a bargain. Cost of fixing, upgrading, parts and labour definitely should not be underestimated.

No mistreated boat of make A will be better than a mint boat of make B, within the same approximate scope.
Capability in the rough is important, but only if you go out in it. Most boats will cope with more than it's crew.
Sitting in a cosy cabin when moored, enjoying good company etc. when the storm and rain is roaring does not take any special capabilities or calculation of fuel consumption vs. range :rolleyes:

Enlighten us on your needs and suggestions will pop up ;)
 
im looking at old sunseeker as just posted, and my budget does not stretch much further than the asking prices quoted (30000) I am a fair weathered sailor I must admit but do go out most weekends I am quite handy when it comes to hands on maintainance however I am no marine mechanic. running and operating costs ive already thought about and you don't buy a boat without the expectation of running costs repairs mooring etc .

I suppose really my needs are a good size cruising boat for weekends away or a little longer equipped with a few cabin comforts that handles well if things get a bit choppy and cruises at a reasonable speed
 
LOL - you sound like I forced you :)
Very nice looking boats. A friend has been looking at some of these, albeit smaller models, and we've had lots of discussions over what may need to be replaced. Generally, the ones you've highlighted look good and well maintained but pictures can be very misleading. I really couldn't say how much overhauling the engines would cost but I was quoted 3.5k for my single 2.8 diesel, small compared to those. I think the main worry is that it just becomes a long expensive drain on resources as opposed to an enjoyable hobby. I assume you already have a boat and are looking for something bigger to go further and offer better amenities? When moving up in boats, everything just costs more and more. If you make a list of all the work you 'might' want to do, like upgrading the electronics, replacing worn hoods and covers, internal fabrics, stop cocks, plumbing etc, you might find that you're better off buying a newer boat from day one. But if, and only if, they've clearly been well maintained, modernised where applicable and and generally 'loved', then you might find a great boat that you can use from day one. But equally consider that as boat design has improved of the years, a lot of modern boats can offer the same accommodation and cockpit space for a shorter length and therefore lower costs too - generally!. In other words, you might find that an older 35ft boat doesn't have many advantages over a more modern 28 for example. You're not a million miles away from a Sealine 28 for example, which I suspect offers better space over size, and don't forget to add the extra maintenance spend to your budget too.
 
I have owned almost exclusively 'really old' as you so uncharitably put it, Boats over the last nine years.

You need to be a bit savvy as to how things work, pay particular attention to things which could kill the engine(s) such as impellers etc, and carry a good selection of minor spares on board. The reality is, a well looked after old boat can offer good service.

If you don't know how to do the basic stuff, then perhaps you're not the ideal candidate for a boat which need constant attention.

My last Broom was a 1976, and performed faultlessly for three years, other than a spilt injector pipe which cost £65!
 
Nice boats.
I'd suggest you get a quote on a full engine service including outdrives and connecting parts if not done very recently.

If upholstery is a concern to you some fixing up might be on your list (eg. the Tomahawk captain's seat need fix or replacement). From a viewing in the med I noticed that all year sun is quite hard on things, especially gel coat so deck and hull finish should be considered.
 
Our family have just purchased a fairline sedan 32, really happy and cant wait to use it

However.... try everything if you can. We were advised of parts which were operational which are blatently not. I should of checked these things for myself rather than just asking questions.

We were also told the out drives had been serviced within the past 12 months... yet they were leaking oil badly so we have had it on the hard for about 2months while sorting parts, installing things we wanted and getting to suss out the inner workings of the boat. We arehopefully going o get it in the water for a week or 2 to test the out drives on their return.

I'm sure all of this could of been avoided by asking more, and getting stuck in more on the viewing. Lesson learnt.
 
You should read robg71's thread on buying and renovating an older sunseeker here http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?326665-New-Boat

He has different engines to those, but will have a lot to offer on the work he needed to go and pros/cons

Another thing you could do for that particular boat, is get someone local (there are a few Gibraltarians in this forum I think), to, go and view/take some candid photos for you. I'm sure they wouldn't mind if you asked nicely. I won't name names as it is up to them if they wish to volunteer but if they don't read this, you could start a new thread entitled "Could someone view this Sunseeker that is in Gibraltar for me please?" that should get someones attention.
 
As Sheppy intimated above, I've been pondering an older Sunseeker for some time and we have discussed the various aspects many times. ;) Although I'd probably only spend half what you are looking at, I still seem to talk myself out of it every time - mostly due to lack of space! The work/repair aspects worry me less and they certainly offer a of lot of boat for the money. I think the downside is often dated and thirsty engines, aging fittings or general neglect. A lot of folk seem to buy boats in an economic boom and then when the bills start rolling in, the weather turns and other life priorities take over the gloss comes off and boat TLC moves down the list... As we know, boats (like women) don't like being neglected and live in a pretty unforgiving environment! If you find one that has evaded that fate, then age is less important - but the older the boat, the greater the chance of that one custodian of neglect which will have started a few ticking time bombs where repairs are concerned. Provided you do your research well and have a good idea on costs - for parts and both DIY & professional repairs - I see no reason to be put off.
 
"We were also told the out drives had been serviced within the past 12 months... yet they were leaking oil badly so we have had it on the hard for about 2months while sorting parts"


A frequently heard cry of anguish !
Its not only the money, its the time ashore spent dismantling,finding the fault,finding the new bits and rebuilding the thing along with all the bits you have to replace because you have had to take it to bits.
Then add in the labour costs.
Vital to check that the previous owner has done all the PITA outdrive servicing,betcha he hasnt and he is getting rid of the boat cos the out drives have given him grief and he wants to unload the thing on some other unsuspecting newbie and judging by this forum,we are unlikely to be running out of those anytime soon.:)
 
captaindan said:
alright sheppy,

theres a couple of sunseekers ive been looking at on boatshed that I fancy the look of. http://www.boatshed.com/sunseeker_tomahawk_37-boat-103165.html and also http://www.boatshed.com/sunseeker_san_remo_33-boat-134411.html my main concern is buying a load of headache but the room and size is very appealing and I think there still not a bad looking boat for the age. what do you reckon an overhaul on them engines would cost?
Click to expand...

Hi captaindan.

Firstly I bought a 1990 SS Mexico in January as a fun day boat. At this age you need a lot of basic DIY skills to get everything working again. I was lucky that I bought one with a new engine and outdrive (from 2008). Also had new electronics and QL trim tabs...though one fell off and nearly sunk her! Med older boats are often ponly used a few weeks a year so maintenance is generally down to "just keep her working when being used".

I know the two boats you are looking at. The Second the San Remo 33 has been used primarily as a live aboard boat. She has been very well looked after but has not had many Sea miles in the 5 years she has sat outside my local pub and less than 100 yards from where I have been living (and oposite my old boat). I also know John at Boatshed so if you need me to take an honest look just ask. The first boat is the Tomahawk 37 in Sotogrande. I love the 37 but it is a lot of cost for mooring for little accomodation. It is basically a big dayboat/weekender. That one is a bit unloved and tired and will need TLC. This is however reflected in the price. With the Gib border issues I am rarely leving Gib but again, with a bit of planning could go and have a decent nosey for you. Normally go to Soto by boat but on my last trip a trim tab fell off leaving a gapping 2 inch hole and a lot of worry. That should finally be fixed this week so maybe a shake down trip for me to Soto is in order...just let me know how I can help.

Cheers

Paul
 
captaindan said:
hi
I am looking for some advice on the pitfalls or pros of buying a really old motorboat 20 or 25 years (sunseeker or similar) as apposed to a second hand say searay 290 or similar around 98 to 2000age. it looks like you get a lot of boat for your money with deisal engines and more seaworthy boat sunsseker or am I being slightly deluded? just wondered what peoples thoughts are on this or would my money be better dspent on a later boat.
Click to expand...

I used to own an almost new bayliner and sold it for an old Fairline Cornich, I had the same concerns you have but had no regrets at all, an old well kept boat can be more reliable than a new one.

My current boat is 20 years old and touch wood has been very reliable over the last 10 years.

I think you need to be cautious if buying outdrives, new or old, outdrives are not really reliable if left submerged for 11 months of the year.
the sole reason I changed the cornich was to move away from outdrives.
 
It's like buying a used car! You just have to be careful and know what to look for...if a boat's been taken care of, I think it can be "as good as new."
 
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?326665-New-Boat

this was the start of my adventure in to older boats... just like the ones you are looking at.
Have a look, and then add up the cost. Mine had been parked up for a long while, and i have had my share of breakages, but i am now beyond that point.... hopefully... for a while.
Its a lot of work, if its hasnt been done to it... its going to need it sooner... especially as they get nearer to 30 years old...
 
Tender_aft said:
You should read robg71's thread on buying and renovating an older sunseeker here http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?326665-New-Boat

He has different engines to those, but will have a lot to offer on the work he needed to go and pros/cons

Another thing you could do for that particular boat, is get someone local (there are a few Gibraltarians in this forum I think), to, go and view/take some candid photos for you. I'm sure they wouldn't mind if you asked nicely. I won't name names as it is up to them if they wish to volunteer but if they don't read this, you could start a new thread entitled "Could someone view this Sunseeker that is in Gibraltar for me please?" that should get someones attention.
Click to expand...


oops... missed your post... sorry for repeating myself
sorry for repeating
sorry.... :)
 
You are quiet right, you do get a lot more boat for your money by buying an older boat. My own boat is now almost 30 years of age and is in great condition!
It's not really like buying a car, boats can live for many more years! It's all about condition and many owners of larger cruisers look after them like babies.
So best advice is look at condition first but also you have to see the boat in your mind as cleaned and polished!
What I mean is when boats go on the market it may have taken a couple of years to find a someone to buy it and in that time it's got pretty dirty. Gel coat can be brought back to look great again with a wash, cut back the gel and then polish and its like new looking again!
Of course you should have it surveyed before you purchase, particularly the engines!
Good luck and don't be afraid of older boats, many were built far better than new ones.
Barry
 
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