Pirates take another Brit Yacht......

[Woodlouse]

Why don't we just write an open letter to the Somalis, telling them how we feel about their actions. Surely they'll feel such guilt that they're bound to give up and return all the hostages and ransoms.

 

[fergie_mac66]

Well I guess the pirates will have a couple of u boats soon !! guess we will have to lease some Canadian corvettes with depth charges !

edit well they have 1 we could lease if we could afford it!

 

[Clarky]

I have to disagree. There are small fishing skiffs here and there virtually all the way between Yemen and India and I suspect further south as well. They stay out for weeks. Many yachts that have sailed in the area report how they have been "chased", "attacked" or whatever by small vessels that then turned out to be fishermen which most of the time are looking to trade some fish for drinking water. Last year a yacht convoy was mistaken as a group of pirate vessels in local VHF transmissions. To say that the pirates are easy to identify is nonsens.

Sybaris,

Are you for real,do fisherman wave automatic weapons about.How do you stay at sea for weeks in a skiff or rib,do try and be sensible.In any case its fairly simple for the navy or military to track where suspects have come from.

 

[Searush]

Sybaris,

Are you for real,do fisherman wave automatic weapons about.How do you stay at sea for weeks in a skiff or rib,do try and be sensible.In any case its fairly simple for the navy or military to track where suspects have come from.

Yeah, they're all required to have theri AIS on . . .

 

[Clarky]

Yeah, they're all required to have theri AIS on . . .

Not sure what point your making Searush or if you were joking,but its not hard to track or identify the people we are talking about,if there was a need to do so.

 

[puddock]

Yeah, they're all required to have theri AIS on . . .

Does everyone think that we have to be in a big grey warship? Would it be "unfair" to pose as Merchantmen? (Q Ships).
I really cannot believe that some of us are sitting back and saying " well, what if......."
But that is the beauty of argument - we get a conclusion somewhere in the middle - usually!

 

[Woodlouse]

Not sure what point your making Searush or if you were joking,but its not hard to track or identify the people we are talking about,if there was a need to do so.

I think you underestimate the size of the indian ocean. You might be able to track a skiff, but you've got to find it first.

 

[westernman]

I think you underestimate the size of the indian ocean. You might be able to track a skiff, but you've got to find it first.

In good weather, from an aircraft flying at about 5000 feet you can easily spot a skiff and also cover an enourmous area in just a few hours.

Of course, if it is raining, cloudy or the sea is rough you won't be able to, but from what I understand, the pirates are only out in fair weather.

 

[Brian blue bear]

An Agreement Instead

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1892376,00.html

I hope you don't mind a but in However, are you suggesting maybe an agreement with the Somalies to leave thier coastline alone, so they may be fishermen instead of Pirates, would it be a great Idea? A global naval force, could Police the somali waters to prevent what would be then illegal fishing by Forign boats instead of piracy and of Course there would still be a deterrent to Pirates, indeed the waters are already Policed in a way by several countries, Navys, not hard to see that If they don't fight for themselves nobody else will, and how do they fight? and is it true they have not killed a hostage yet? is that what is already happening and that is why the Navy didn't fire?

 

[Woodlouse]

In good weather, from an aircraft flying at about 5000 feet you can easily spot a skiff and also cover an enourmous area in just a few hours.

Of course, if it is raining, cloudy or the sea is rough you won't be able to, but from what I understand, the pirates are only out in fair weather.

Searching by air is all well and good. And with radar, thermal and infra red imaging even rain and clouds can be seen through. But it's still hard to find someone who doesn't want to be found. An aircraft spots a skiff, and radios it's position to the nearest warship, which is say, 300 miles away. That means that it's going to take at least 10 hours to get there. If the skiff was moving at only 1 knot then the warship already has an area of 100 square miles to search. Not easy.

 

[puddock]

I hope you don't mind a but in However, are you suggesting maybe an agreement with the Somalies to leave thier coastline alone, so they may be fishermen instead of Pirates, would it be a great Idea? A global naval force, could Police the somali waters to prevent what would be then illegal fishing by Forign boats instead of piracy and of Course there would still be a deterrent to Pirates, indeed the waters are already Policed in a way by several countries, Navys, not hard to see that If they don't fight for themselves nobody else will, and how do they fight? and is it true they have not killed a hostage yet? is that what is already happening and that is why the Navy didn't fire?

What f**king planet do you live on? Do you know of the existance of territorial waters and "innocent passage" ? Who do you expect is left to police thee laws?

"Quote Wikipedia - "Territorial waters, or a territorial sea, as defined by the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea[1], is a belt of coastal waters extending at most twelve nautical miles from the baseline"

So does that mean UK fisherman can go about hijacking rigs and passing ships?
Get a grip on reality - it will serve you well in your adult life, later.
In the meantime, do we all just hope that corruption and piracy will go away - unless you are an ar*e such as Bono, who thinks that all the Western Governments are out to get Africa...... except he has never worked in Africa [ Edit: Never worked!!! ].

For the record, I'd shoot that pr*ck too ........ which might drive up the value of some of my earlier U2 vinyl and progs...

 

[puddock]

Searching by air is all well and good. And with radar, thermal and infra red imaging even rain and clouds can be seen through. But it's still hard to find someone who doesn't want to be found. An aircraft spots a skiff, and radios it's position to the nearest warship, which is say, 300 miles away. That means that it's going to take at least 10 hours to get there. If the skiff was moving at only 1 knot then the warship already has an area of 100 square miles to search. Not easy.

OK, we will just do nothing then .................... that's the way the World works is it? Maybe in your little World.

 

[Brian blue bear]

What f**king planet do you live on? Do you know of the existance of territorial waters and "innocent passage" ? Who do you expect is left to police thee laws?

"Quote Wikipedia - "Territorial waters, or a territorial sea, as defined by the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea[1], is a belt of coastal waters extending at most twelve nautical miles from the baseline"

So does that mean UK fisherman can go about hijacking rigs and passing ships?
Get a grip on reality - it will serve you well in your adult life, later.
In the meantime, do we all just hope that corruption and piracy will go away - unless you are an ar*e such as Bono, who thinks that all the Western Governments are out to get Africa...... except he has never worked in Africa [ Edit: Never worked!!! ].

For the record, I'd shoot that pr*ck too ........ which might drive up the value of some of my earlier U2 vinyl and progs...

Loved yor response, wish I could have seen the facial expressions, no offence intended, however, we Could give them Bonuses for not kidnapping, and buy thier fish at fairtrade prices, don't you think?

 

[Woodlouse]

OK, we will just do nothing then .................... that's the way the World works is it? Maybe in your little World.

In my little world there are a few naval ships in the indian ocean doing their best. I was just trying to get some people to realise how difficult it is to find and track small craft at sea.

I'm afraid at the moment that it's your little world that has gone completely off the rails.

 

[puddock]

In my little world there are a few naval ships in the indian ocean doing their best. I was just trying to get some people to realise how difficult it is to find and track small craft at sea.

I'm afraid at the moment that it's your little world that has gone completely off the rails.

Woody (if I may call you that),
I do, sincerely as it happens, appologise if I misquoted or misinterpretated you.
You are entirely correct in the observation that we have a "FEW" warships in the Indian Ocean and given the training and calibre of the officers and crew in our Royal Navy, with the 'help' of our Royal Marines, we are a force to be reconned with - providing we have very small problems.My doubts are not with our forces in anyway whatsoever. We have THE most professional and enthusiastic fighting force in the World, 2nd to none.
My gripe is with the limp wristed wan*kers who 'manage them'. Where did they ualify to get the job they are in? In a world of "transparency", isn't it time we were allowed to expose who is calling the shots that so few seem to agree with? It all seems and endless black hole when you try to 'dig'. Maybe, I have got the attention of someone by typing THOSE words............ I still say ***** 'EM !!!
You are a bunch of spineless w*nkers, not fit for the position you occupy.

Anyway, back to the post - Britain needs to get, if not Great, at least better than it is and show a bit of clout............ otherwise we'll just be another France, Portugal, Italy............then maybe we can get something out of the EU?

 

[Ariadne]

Fishermen don't usually wave AK47s around, do they?
Pirates do, so the obvious solution is to sink any skiff over 100 miles from shore carrying any sort of firearm. Then you are not shooting any pirates (black, white, who gives a s%*t what colour they are) and they can swim back to the 'mother ship' if it hangs around for them.

Any 'mother ships' found will also need to be sunk.

We are not talking about poor fishermen who can't make a living here, this organised crime on a very profitable big scale and its holding the worlds shipping trade to ransom. Never mind the 'yachties' they are part of the big picture and deserve the same protection as any ship in international waters.

I will sail where I like, and demand the protection form any Navy for protection from pirate in international waters.

As for the pirates - dead men don't tell tales. Keep sinking their boats and they will run out of them, and go back to taking Western business men hostages again - leaving the sea to fishermen and other seamen.

As for the UK Gov' they are a spinless bunch of wnakers who are just there to get voted back into power. But then you lot voted them in - you lot can use your voices and vote the Fckuers out.

I can't by the way.

 

[rallyveteran]

Fishermen don't usually wave AK47s around, do they?

My experience is that, in these waters, they do.

 

[Sybaris]

Sybaris,

Are you for real,do fisherman wave automatic weapons about.How do you stay at sea for weeks in a skiff or rib,do try and be sensible.In any case its fairly simple for the navy or military to track where suspects have come from.

I sure am for real, and I am just sticking to real facts. Small skiffs do stay out for weeks fishing and there is nothing you write here that can change that. Ask anyone who have sailed in the area. That a group of yachts (not waving weapons) were mistaken for pirates earlier this year is also a fact.

Can you back up your statement that it is fairly easy for the navy or military to track where suspects have come from. They must first be identified as suspect, which the only sure sign seems to be that they are waving automatic weapons, and then tracked for possibly long periods in a huge sea area. I would be most interested what source you have for your information.

 

[cliffordpope]

Do you shoot people before you know they are pirates - when they may be innocent fishermen - .

We accept civilian deaths in any military action - Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. even if we know they are innocent. We shelled Bagdad, bombed Serbia. Somebody at the highest ministerial level authoried pushing the bomb release button without having the slightest idea about who was underneath.
It is apparently completely acceptable to deliberately cause deaths of innocent people in the interests of securing a greater benefit. It is a mystery therefore why there is the squeamishness at blasting a probable pirate ship out of the water.

 

[Clarky]

I sure am for real, and I am just sticking to real facts. Small skiffs do stay out for weeks fishing and there is nothing you write here that can change that. Ask anyone who have sailed in the area. That a group of yachts (not waving weapons) were mistaken for pirates earlier this year is also a fact.

Can you back up your statement that it is fairly easy for the navy or military to track where suspects have come from. They must first be identified as suspect, which the only sure sign seems to be that they are waving automatic weapons, and then tracked for possibly long periods in a huge sea area. I would be most interested what source you have for your information.

I am amazed that a small skiff can stay at sea for weeks,do Somalis not drink or eat .The skiffs I have seen carry 5 or 6 men,drinking say 3 litres a day each ,thats 18 litres a days ,so for one skiff thats in the region of 600 litres per month .Where can you put that in a small skiff,you do live in a fantasy world,we havent even put the food into the equation yet.Oh ,then theres the fuel ,say 3-4 litres of fuel per day ,not an unreasonable estimate,so now we have 12-1500 litres of liquid in this small skiff for a month at sea,or for two weeks 600,I dont think you have really thought about what you are saying before typing.
What happens in the real world is that the Somalis go back and forth to land or to a mother ship,regularly.
Regarding tracking,I am not going into that on here,but how do you think the mother ship suddenly appeared when it was required to collect the Chandlers.Communications are not private in the real world.