Pictures of my keel leak, what should I do next?

B

Brentwales

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 Sep 2019
Messages
73
Visit site
Here are the pictures of my keel and keel bolts.

Having noticed water leaking from the rear of the keel yesterday when cleaning the inside out today I went back to investigate further. You can see under one of the bolts there is a void. I thought the water maybe leaking from there as water was pooling under it, but doesn't seem to be that.

I decided to start taking some of the antifoul off around the keel join to inspect and that appears all sound with no leaks or visible cracks and there is no movement in the keel.

I found a crack at the rear of the keel and when I pressed on it hard, some water came out. So I dug out the crack which you can see in one of the images. It's about two inches long and is a hairline crack extending from the rear of the keel. I checked all the bolts and noticed the bolt directly above where this leak is wasn't tight at all, so I've tightened that up.

How should I deal with this?

https://ibb.co/M6Xq1jH
https://ibb.co/PDLSTqs
https://ibb.co/NKnMq2X
 
Firstly I suspect the boat has grounded & tripped on her keel, pushing the back of the keel into the hull & straining the front of the keel down. Looking at the external photo I suspect there are further cracks radiating outwards from the point of the keel /hull contact at the end of the keel. Remove further antifoul & look much more closely.
Looking at the internal photos it is plain that some GRP cloth squares have been laid on top of the hull skin without any proper preparation indicating the likelihood that this problem has been present some time and previous attempts have been made to stop leaks. The loose nut also suggests that the keel has been pushed up. There should not be a void as looks to be the case between the hull skin & the "plate" over the skin as it would be impossible to tighten the nut without causing damage as something would have to flex. Long & short, I think the keel will have to be dropped, all external cracks ground out , overlaminated with epoxy based resins & faired off to the cast iron keel shape, then the internals will have to be restructured by removing all previous overlaminates & finding out if the "plate" is over a void. It should not be.
Ultimately a straightforward restrengthening job but most important to fully assess the damage in total before undertaking the repairs. This will also involve checking the front end of the keel looking for any damage that has pulled the structure & bolts downwards. You might need a local surveyor just to advise so you have all aspects covered. Fairly easy to reinforce with the correct procedure & materials & accurate advice. possibly too involved for accurate advice on the forum at this time, but certainly a good start.
 
johnlilley said:
Firstly I suspect the boat has grounded & tripped on her keel, pushing the back of the keel into the hull & straining the front of the keel down. Looking at the external photo I suspect there are further cracks radiating outwards from the point of the keel /hull contact at the end of the keel. Remove further antifoul & look much more closely.
Looking at the internal photos it is plain that some GRP cloth squares have been laid on top of the hull skin without any proper preparation indicating the likelihood that this problem has been present some time and previous attempts have been made to stop leaks. The loose nut also suggests that the keel has been pushed up. There should not be a void as looks to be the case between the hull skin & the "plate" over the skin as it would be impossible to tighten the nut without causing damage as something would have to flex. Long & short, I think the keel will have to be dropped, all external cracks ground out , overlaminated with epoxy based resins & faired off to the cast iron keel shape, then the internals will have to be restructured by removing all previous overlaminates & finding out if the "plate" is over a void. It should not be.
Ultimately a straightforward restrengthening job but most important to fully assess the damage in total before undertaking the repairs. This will also involve checking the front end of the keel looking for any damage that has pulled the structure & bolts downwards. You might need a local surveyor just to advise so you have all aspects covered. Fairly easy to reinforce with the correct procedure & materials & accurate advice. possibly too involved for accurate advice on the forum at this time, but certainly a good start.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your feedback John. I'll strip back more of the antifoul to assess for any more cracks and take it from there.

Cheers
 
I agree with John entirely. I don't think you will achieve anything by patching this up. Bite the bullet and drop the keel. Then completely grind out the suspect area until you get to sound GRP then taper off both sides and layup new chopped strand mat to restore structure finishing the outside with woven rovings over as large an area as possible. finish with several coats of epoxy. The inside should be built up until that void under the plate is filled and bed the plate on wet laminate to provide a sound base. All sounds very dramatic but its well within the capability of a DIY guy even if you have never worked with GRP before. As a matter of interest what boat is this??
 
Notwithstanding the sage advice above.

Bearing in mind the boat and your probable use of it...

If you have your eye on immediate action, maybe a winter racing series, then you could blag it up and do it properly (or move the boat on) at your convenience. It looks like that is what the previous owner did. Certainly things will not get better but the thing is unlikely to drop off and you may want to get some use out of the boat right now.
 
pvb said:
He only bought the boat last week! The insurance company might not play ball...
Click to expand...

Without digging back in the forum, did he get the boat surveyed before purchase? If so, I'd have thought a word with the surveyor might be in order (and preferably before any more work is done on the boat.)
 
Yeah, I only got the boat last week. Didn't pay a huge amount for it, a survey would have been too expensive for the value of the boat and insurance will only cover 3rd party as she is a 1978 boat. It's my first boat and I'm a novice so I did buy the boat on the good faith of the owner as I was oblivious to these finer details of inspection. It's all good experience for me to learn, both the good and the bad.

The keel joint looks absolutely sound so far, I'm going to strip back more of the paint around the keel to see if I can find any more radiating cracks.

If she lasts me 2 years, I'll be happy as I don't intend to race, I want to learn how to sail and then move onto something bigger eventually.
 
The only additional advice I can offer regarding assessing the area externally is to be able to identify the difference between a crack & a scratch. Sometimes they can be quite difficult to distinguish which is which & often a hairline crack is assumed to be a gel coat scratch. Obviously an open crack is exactly that but the hairline cracks can be just as serious but often misdiagnosed. Sanding the area will often disguise the crack so try and avoid sanding in the first instance. Looking at the photo of the keel the crack almost certainly runs along the edge of the keel on the left hand side for some distance along with suspected hairline cracks extending toward the top of the photo past the area of obvious open cracking.
All repairable, but cannot really add strength externally without removal of the keel. With regard to insurance, the age of the vessel is not an issue, comprehensive insurance is available but they would need a satisfactory confirmation of condition.
 
Just to chip in.....what is your budget? Doing a proper repair with keel drop might be expensive, and some people have been known to live with a little water in the bilges. If you fill the bilges with water as a test and the water stays there you might have an acceptably slow leak. It might have been rain water you found. I'm not disputing the grounding hypothesis at all but if the previous owner genuinely lived with the problem and occasionally sponged the bilges maybe you could too. Just being a bit provocative.
 
The person who sold the boat after disguising the damage is at fault here. I think your first initiative would be to try to get him to take it back, although he would be within his rights to claim caveat emptor.
If that fails and you are stuck with it, IMHO, a repair like this needs to be done by a professional. If you are new to GRP repairs this not one on which to "learn on the job".
 
I put water in the bilge yesterday and let it sit there, it didn't noticeably drop in level after 30 mins. When I pressed on the crack externally some bubble appeared as I'd added fairy liquid to the water, so it's definitely coming from the inside.

When checking the keel bolts I noticed the one directly above this crack was loose so have tightened it. I've not done a water retest yet to check whether tightening this bolt has effectively stopped water seeping from the bilge area down into this crack, but this in itself suggests there is a route for water between the hull and keel if it's finding its way out of this crack.
 
Okay, well 30 minutes isn't a long time for a boat afloat. I'd talk to your local grp repair person and pay to get it fixed (you might need to shut your eyes with the bill). As long as the rest of the boat is okay you can then move on and enjoy boat ownership, which should involve sailing :). Wet bilges are depressing at best.
 
84rXVyD.png


That looks to me suspiciously like a cracked floor that has been covered.
 
PuffTheMagicDragon said:
That looks to me suspiciously like a cracked floor that has been covered.
Click to expand...

The whole thing look like there's been some major bodging in the past. And the bolt pattern is odd - it looks like there are 2 missing bolts in the centre section. It's an unfortunate start to Brentwales' boating, but part of a steep learning curve.

Edit: Despite the apparent holes for missing keel bolts, I've found other photos of J24 keel bolts and it seems there are only 2 in the centre section. It also seems that the hull has a moulded stub on to which the keel is bolted. The void created by the stub is usually filled with solid GRP to bring the level up near to the top of the keel bolts.
 
Last edited:
I think work has previously been done on the keel as they used to have vermiculite so perhaps this was done to remediate that as I believe they stopped using it in the early 80s on the J24s
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top