Pi** poor teaching - what would you do?

[Ubergeekian]

Please don't do that, you must flag your concerns to the college principal and the RYA. If you do not then the tutor may not be made aware of their shortcomings (handled in a constructive manner of course) and the college will not be given the opportunity to correct the matter before the next cohort arrives. As for the RYA - it might spur them into undertaking a course evaluation.

There has been lots of good advice here, but could add a wee note of caution. The instructor might be right! Many years ago I was assistant instructor on the DS shorebased course. We occasionally got people who found some of it - particularly the vectors on charts - almost impossibly difficult. With only one or two in a group we could cope, but I can imagine that a group with many slow learners in it could be a real problem.

That said, knocking off early is not really on. However, I'd suggest making the first approach to the college a "what are you going to do to cover the syllabus?" one rather than a "what are you going to do about the tutor?" one.

(Current job is overseeing the education of 1000+ adult learners. Sorting out problems with tutors is important, but sorting out problems with learning is even more so...)

 

[Dan the man]

in my experience, if youhave a complaint, and you think you are going to pass, despite bad teaching, PASS first then write a lette rof complaint, copied to the various people concerned, including the tutor.

It should not happen, but I have heard of people who complained before they completed the exams, whatever, they have been given a low, yet passable, grade.

I know it is not satisfactory, but I paid a lot more money for my degree, I got excellent teaching on the whole, but do feel some tutors were more than p*** poor! I continued tot he end and complained at the end. On one occasion I did complain to a tutor for unfair marking and I told him and went for a remark from another tutor. Got marks reinstated, but the tutor respected me more, he said for complaining...lots to think about.

Sounds liek your guy is not a good dedicated teacher. I would pass, and then complain afterwards so others who are not in your position of passing without help dont suffer.

Hope that helps.

 

[EuanMcKenzie]

or an informal word with the tutor saying your are a bit pissed off not finishing the syllabus any chance he can work late or another evening to squeeze it in.

If he says no and is a jobsworth you have tried and have grounds to complain formally. Then you've given him his chance.

 

[RichardS]

When I did the Yachtmaster last year we missed an evening in February when the college closed due to a big snowfall. When we met the following week the tutor asked if we would like him to arrange a replacement evening with the college. We all agreed and had two evenings the following week!

A bit different to your tutors attitude!

Richard

 

[Sadlermike]

I do not agree with Bosun Higgs that you should phone Mr Stevens at the RYA, bend his ear and not even bother with the college heirarchy 'since they won't have a clue what the course should involve'.

As many respondents have suggested, the best chance of an amicable resolution is to approach the tutor in the first instance. If this route is not successful the next step has to involve college management as your contract is with the college to which you paid your fees. Similarly, the tutor is an employee of the college. For these reasons, the RYA would have to refer any complaint to the college principal. I recognise the value of keeping the RYA informed but resolution of the issue has to lie within the college.

 

[V1701]

Everything else aside, I would definitely complain (firstly to the tutor) about consistently knocking off early which is unacceptable. If no-one complains he'll just carry on taking the p*ss...

 

[Thistle]

Very good advice from Sadlermike in both his posts.

* line up your facts (and, if possible, those of others)
* know what you want as an outcome, and a timeframe for that outcome
* go through the college first
* if you get satisfaction, report the situation and outcomes to the RYA after the course
* if no satisfaction, go to RYA after the college has had a chance.

Hope it goes well for you.

 

[alant]

I do not agree with Bosun Higgs that you should phone Mr Stevens at the RYA, bend his ear and not even bother with the college heirarchy 'since they won't have a clue what the course should involve'.

As many respondents have suggested, the best chance of an amicable resolution is to approach the tutor in the first instance. If this route is not successful the next step has to involve college management as your contract is with the college to which you paid your fees. Similarly, the tutor is an employee of the college. For these reasons, the RYA would have to refer any complaint to the college principal. I recognise the value of keeping the RYA informed but resolution of the issue has to lie within the college.

I disagree.

Regardless of the contractual obligations of the college, it is still an RYA Course.
The instructor holds an RYA ticket of approval as a shorebased instructor. He is supposed to have attended a training course & have demonstrated his competance in teaching these subjects. If this competance is in doubt, indicated by the level of compaints/disgruntled pupils, how else will the RYA able to deal with the the situation.

It is this feedback, good or bad, that is essential, keeps us from becoming lazy, stale or blinkered regarding our supposed ability & should be welcomed by all.

Incompetance also reflects upon other instructors & will devalue the currency of the courses. Something we, as instructors, would not want to happen.

 

[Solitaire]

Regardless of the contractual obligations of the college, it is still an RYA Course.
The instructor holds an RYA ticket of approval as a shorebased instructor. He is supposed to have attended a training course & have demonstrated his competance in teaching these subjects. If this competance is in doubt, indicated by the level of compaints/disgruntled pupils, how else will the RYA able to deal with the the situation.

It is this feedback, good or bad, that is essential, keeps us from becoming lazy, stale or blinkered regarding our supposed ability & should be welcomed by all.

Incompetance also reflects upon other instructors & will devalue the currency of the courses. Something we, as instructors, would not want to happen.

I agree with Alan. The course should be a minimum of 40 hours and sometimes it will be longer. take it up with the instructor first then if you get no joy with the RYA and name the person.

 

[IanH]

When I did the Yachtmaster last year we missed an evening in February when the college closed due to a big snowfall. When we met the following week the tutor asked if we would like him to arrange a replacement evening with the college. We all agreed and had two evenings the following week!

A bit different to your tutors attitude!

Richard

Yes we have missed a day due to snow as well - no comment or offer to make up the time. Neither was this mentioned when he gave us his assessment last week of our abilities (collectively not individually).

Ian

 

[IanH]

in my experience, if youhave a complaint, and you think you are going to pass, despite bad teaching, PASS first then write a lette rof complaint, copied to the various people concerned, including the tutor.

It should not happen, but I have heard of people who complained before they completed the exams, whatever, they have been given a low, yet passable, grade.

I know it is not satisfactory, but I paid a lot more money for my degree, I got excellent teaching on the whole, but do feel some tutors were more than p*** poor! I continued tot he end and complained at the end. On one occasion I did complain to a tutor for unfair marking and I told him and went for a remark from another tutor. Got marks reinstated, but the tutor respected me more, he said for complaining...lots to think about.

Sounds liek your guy is not a good dedicated teacher. I would pass, and then complain afterwards so others who are not in your position of passing without help dont suffer.

Hope that helps.

Many years ago I was studying for my professional exams and the tutor on one of the course was shocking. At the morning coffee break a number of us complained, by lunchtime of that day a replacement turor had been brought in from his holiday and we were all happy again. P.S. Passed all the exams first time thanks to the generally excellent quality of teaching.

The difference was that I needed the piece of paper in order to progress in my profession. In this case I don't need the piece of paper in order to progress in my hobby although it would be nice to have.

I haven't listed all of the problems with the course/tutor/college beause they are legion. The one that seems to exercise most people at the moment is that there is so little room to work, each of us has about an 18" square, maybe 2' square to work on squeezed up together and this is where we will be taking our exam.

Others seem quite happy to be told the answers to our assessed homework exercises before we do them, I'm not I'd rather use them to assess my level of understanding and progress. The exam isn't open book is it?

Thanks for the comments all.


Ian

 

[footsoldier]

As a matter of passing curiosity, anyone know what qualifications shore-based instructors require?

I was bemused to learn recently that someone of my acquaintance was now instructing RYA theory, - an individual with very limited knowledge and noted for his poor communication skills.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

1 Inform the RYA - otherwise they can't do anything about it

2 If it would help, have a look at the on-line theory course on www.aztecsailing.co.uk - no charge, except for printable downloads - which covers all the theory you need to know.

 

[Skylark]

As a matter of passing curiosity, anyone know what qualifications shore-based instructors require?

I was bemused to learn recently that someone of my acquaintance was now instructing RYA theory, - an individual with very limited knowledge and noted for his poor communication skills.

The vast majority will have RYA/MCA YM Offshore and have attended an instructor training course including an assessment by two very experienced instructor trainers.

There is a route via Advanced Powerboat but these shorebased instructors are limited to teaching the basic nav and DS courses (from memory).

The RYA website will show in more detail, if I've remembered incorrectly.

 

[Lady Campanula]

Many courses folded about 4-5 years ago when Gum'mint subsidy for a raft of Adult Education initiatives was withdrawn, just about the time that the RYA started to insist on several hours of expensive dedicated PC/IT training per student, on the Electronic Chart Plotter DVD ( ECP ). That really means two or more full sessions in an equipped IT suite, all of which were in full use - day and evening - in my local college delivering specialist IT courses. I was asked by my Principal if the RYA Courses' fees could be increased to support fully the attributable cost of use of the IT suite(s) and the necessary IT technician to set up and reset after, and the answer had to be 'No.'

While the RYA were insisting that such 'ECP' tuition on PCs be provided ( 2 hours for DazedKipper and 4 hours for Yotmeister, as I recall ) it was obvious that most sea schools would be unable to comply, as they didn't have IT suites sitting around unused. I don't know how they managed to 'fudge' this clearly-stated requirement, but 'fudge' it they did.....

Scores of experienced, skilled and professionally-qualified tutors became fed up with the wrangling, and quit. The RYA later wrote to many of those, asking if they'd consider setting up as 'one-man-band RYA training provider' businesses in their local community. When asked if the RYA would waive or reduce the substantial annual fee for 'Recognition' to facilitate this, the answer was 'Not on your nelly'. As one who considered this carefully, the capital commitment would have been large i.r.o. any projected income flow from course fees; the Return on Capital Employed would have been negative in all realistic projections.

Many such tutors were involved principally to 'put something back in' and didn't expect any substantial gain. However, subsidising local shorebased training from one's own pocket did - and still does - not appeal.

Perhaps the soon-retiring Saintly Stevens might care to clarify?

 

[Nico]

Me too

When I did my Day Skipper course the instructor obviously knew his stuff but was painfully boring. I think that there is a lot more to teaching than knowing your stuff. You've got to put it across. This is something that was already apparent to me at the age of 14, doing maths O level!

Anyway, having slogged my way through Day Skipper I didn't do any more shore-based courses until the tutor retired and a new tutor became available for the Yachtmaster theory. I suspect that none of the students had the bottle to dob the original tutor in, which was a pity as he was doing nobody any favours except presumably himself. At least he didn't short change us in terms of hours and was probably unaware of how tedious his classes were.

Your man needs taking to task for ending the class early. The least you can expect is to get the time. Spill the beans. The tutor is cheating you.

 

[Babylon]

There are still people in this world who'll give their all for reasons of duty, pride, professionalism, honour, dignity, conviction, vocation, etc.

The rest of us need a good talking-to from time to time!

So, get together with (enough of) your class-mates and go see the tutor. If you get no joy, then follow rapidly up the chain of responsibility, starting with the college and going onto the RYA.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Others seem quite happy to be told the answers to our assessed homework exercises before we do them, I'm not I'd rather use them to assess my level of understanding and progress.

The exam isn't open book is it? Thanks for the comments all. Ian

There isnt a DS exam in the true sense of that word, just tests and all you get at the end is a course completion cert ie not a pass cert. Instructors are told not to fail anyone who attends regularly, does the work and isnt a complete numptie. Peple can get the cert on the basis of the course work alone. In short you are going there for what you will learn rather than to achieve a qualification as such.

 

[Daedelus]

There isnt a DS exam in the true sense of that word, just tests and all you get at the end is a course completion cert ie not a pass cert. Instructors are told not to fail anyone who attends regularly, does the work and isnt a complete numptie. Peple can get the cert on the basis of the course work alone. In short you are going there for what you will learn rather than to achieve a qualification as such.

This isn't how I see the RYA stating it. The line seems to me to be that if they have done reasonably in the homework and classwork and od badly in part of the exam that they reasonably should have passed you can set them another question or even exam and they get another go. There is considerable emphasis on ensuring theat you boost any who do not make it and ensure they do not feel they have to give up sailing just because they don't pass.

Whatever else fill in the feedback form at the end of the exercise booklet and firstly take up your issues with the instructor. Ideally this would have been done when he first started saying I'm fed up we'll finish now and you should have had an idea of what should have been achieved and by when. However, if my college is anything to go by they would definitely want to know of the problems you have faced with a view to putting things right. Adult Ed these days find they still make a small profit on RYA courses and also manage to tick a few boxes in let's keep us going questionnaire. In fact I recently mentioned one instructor I had many years ago and they remembered him and said they were relieved when he moved as they would otherwise have had to fire him as he was so bad. The RYA are also quite capable of removing the instructor qualification (and YM too come to that) of they feel sufficiently strongly about something and have been known to do so.

 

[Skylark]

Instructors are told not to fail anyone who attends regularly, does the work and isnt a complete numptie. Peple can get the cert on the basis of the course work alone.

Sounds like an urban myth to me. I certainly hope it is.

Who are the people doing the telling?

There are very clear guidelines contained within the Instructors version of the exercise book giving an as near objective as possible criteria to check for transfer of knowledge against the learning objectives of the syllabus.

The two exam set pieces exist to check that knowledge has been transferred.
I always give students "mock" exams (last years papers), such that they are as fully prepared as possible.

Knowing what's coming, it's probably fair to say that any revision is "targeted" but, as you correctly suggest, a big part of the instructors role is to enthuse and motivate to progress. If students have made an effort, we should encourage and give as much help as is required.

Conversely, hard to believe but there are students who always turn up late, never do the homework assignments, clearly have very little interest, struggle to keep up with the work but expect their certificate at the end. Now that's another issue altogether!