Petrol - Benson - Warning

byron

byron

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You will be aware of the BP Filling Station at Benson, about a half mile or so above Benson Cruiser Station. Well be warned, they will not sell you fuel if you are using a plastic container. I popped in today to buy 10 gallons and they switched the pump off on me. I was using 2 x 5 gallon drums which I have used a zillion times before.

No explanations, they just sent a message out with another driver. He told me that they'd said my Drums weren't acceptable. I left with the £2.58 worth already taken and bought it elsewhere. If they want their £2.58 they can sue me.
 
I know how frustrating that is. I used to fill my last boat with plastic 25 Ltr fuel jugs designed specifically for motor sport when the garage switched off the pump. They said my containers weren't suitable and showed me some paperwork which showed them to be correct. I think if you look up the law regarding transport of fuels, you're only allowed a few liters in fuel marked plastic containers and only a few more in metal containers. After that, I just kept the containers in the back of a van whilst being filled.
 
It of course depends if they spot you.
When we had a petrol boat we always used our petrol car for the trip.
Would fill car at furthest pump from reception before craftly filling up couple of 20L drums hidden out of view by car and/or petrol pump.
This did not of course prevent car from reeking of petroleum,then stop several litres ending up over me and the boat and coming home stinking to high heaven with a fume induced headache, :)
Worst problem now is summoning up the energy to untie boat and make the hundred yard trip to the fuel berth.
 
Bizarrely, in the correct and labelled containers, you may carry up to 333 litres of petrol in a domestic vehicle. The HSE exempts private transportation of small quantities of fuel:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/cdg/manual/commonproblems/petrol.htm

Dont forget to buy a 2kg powder extinguisher. I have a roll of self adhesive red warning triangle labels for petrol if you want some. PM me your address and I'll post however many you want.
 
I bought a couple of nice 10ltr fuel cans from Halfords, unfortunately they are black so have to remember big + black = petrol for boat, small + black = diesel for the car.
 
So does this mean that they would stop you filling the large red outboard tanks. Haven't filled one in years but always in the past just rolled up to the garage and filled them up.
 
Back in the mid-90's. Same station. We would pick up petrol for our boat moored at Shillingford,
No problem drawing off 20 litres in 4 x 5 litre plastic containers and then one day pump was turned off mid way through the 2nd can

"Sorry sir - 5 litres max now"
 
iledesprit said:
So does this mean that they would stop you filling the large red outboard tanks. Haven't filled one in years but always in the past just rolled up to the garage and filled them up.
Click to expand...

I have filled two of the metal tanks at this petrol station,I went to fill a plastic 5 litre one at the same time , and the pump was turned off. The cashier told me i had already used over my limit.
 
If you walk to a petrol station, the staff get very confused, ( or park out of sight lol) I filled two 5 litre plastic containers, paid, then my wife did the same, all met the standards, you can go back many times, as long as they have never sold too much fuel in one transaction, they have covered themselves.
mind you that was a couple of years ago. Often petrol stations close to marinas are used to people buying petrol like this. The trick is 2 cans at a time, and lots of journeys.
They are supposed to allow the larger outboard petrol tanks to be filled to just over 20 litres. (is it 23 or 25 litres can't recall)
If we are forced to buy petrol at marinas at the highly inflated price, which is often stale, ask them when the tank was last filled? Some outboard engines didn't like stale petrol, or carry some fuel stabiliser, now that really works with your own last season's petrol. I used some made by starbrite, expensive at over £16 but should last many seasons.
I also found with an outboard, if you have old fuel, or dodgy fuel from old stock, blend it 50:50 with new fuel from a petrol station with a large turnover, that works well too, based on my experience with a Honda 15 4 stroke outboard.
Richard
 
Benson garage is one of those where you would have to choose your pump carefully to fill up containers, I think the law is 10l plastic and 20l metal but individual garages can have their own rules, a lot will only let you fill the little 5l plastic containers. Have filled a 30l outboard tank regularly at a local station but I think they are used to seeing boat stuff about and the tank is a least red so looks right. Any old oil drums or odd coloured containers are bound to attract attention.
 
The letter of the law and garage policy are often not the same. However right you are, they can still choose not to let you fill your container.

I did recently see a pickup truck with 7 x 25l plastic drums fill up with petrol...... I just pulled in to the garage and pulled straight out again once I realised what he was doing.....

Recently a friend has had no end of trouble filling the tank in his ex-army landrover. The fuel cap is under the driver seat - every time he tries to fill up they cut the pumps... Their story - they think he is filling the foot-well with diesel to torch the garage!!!!

My method is to go when its reasonably busy, furthest pump - quick as you can.
 
Chris_d said:
Benson garage is one of those where you would have to choose your pump carefully to fill up containers, I think the law is 10l plastic and 20l metal but individual garages can have their own rules, a lot will only let you fill the little 5l plastic containers. Have filled a 30l outboard tank regularly at a local station but I think they are used to seeing boat stuff about and the tank is a least red so looks right. Any old oil drums or odd coloured containers are bound to attract attention.
Click to expand...

You've got it perfectly correct Chris_d. That's exactly what the law states. 2x10 litres in metal cans, and 2x 5 litres in plastic cans.
 
I looked into all this a few years ago...

Reading this thread it is obvious that people are talking about lots of different things but assuming they are talking about the same subject. I will try to explain it as i see it....

Firstly there are 4 subjects going on here. the purchase of petrol, the storage of petrol, the transportation of petrol and the use of petrol. All of these things attract different rules and stated amounts.

Storing petrol (at your house, in your garage or shed etc)
Storing means that you will eventually decant the petrol into an end use petrol tank for use by an engine.
You are only suppose to have up to a maximum of 30 liters without special rules.
You can only use a metal 10l can or a plastic 5l can. You can mix and match these as long as you don't have more that 2 of each.
This is how you get the 30l limit- 2 x 10l metal and 2 x 5l plastic making 30l total. Only these will have the necessary safety marks etc, ALL other fuel cans including Jerry cans are illegal if you use them for petrol.

Transporting petrol. (in your vehicle on the road)
You may only transport 333l of petrol before special rules apply. This petrol is not being stored at your house at this time so storage limits do not apply. However the container limits do apply because it is impossible to buy 'cans' bigger. As stated you can only buy metal 10l cans and plastic 5l cans. You could fill your vehicle up with as many cans as you like as long as you don't bust the 333l limit and don't eventually store them all in the same place. Other containers are available for this purpose or are suitable. You could buy a single bunded tank on a trailer but these are usually limited to 250l. you can also fill a demountable 'tank'. This is how come your allowed to fill outboard tanks in your car boot. these demountable tanks go up to 33l but you can fill more than one as long as you do not bust the 333l limit. one constraint is that you must have a proper way of securing the cans and therefor this would not allow you to have loads of 5l cans rolling around in your boot.

Buying petrol.
You can buy as much petrol as you wish. If you, your Mum, your neighbor and his dog all go to the garage and all fill a 250l bowser, you could go in and purchase all 1000 liters in one transaction. The garage will, however only dispense 100l before the pump cuts off and needs to be reset. This is not a maximum limit just a safety feature.

Using petrol.
Petrol that is put into an end use tank directly from the pump can never be questioned. no garage is upset that you just put 70l directly into your cars tank and then filled a generator in your boot and then filled the tank on your shiny new speedboat on the trailer behind your car.

In practice what does this mean?
While Jerry cans and other freely available 20l type cans are illegal and garages should not fill them, they seem to forget that they should allow people to fill multiple approved containers. The fact that you can only 'store' a small amount has leached into what people think they know you should be doing and apply this to what they think you should be buying. This is why they get upset if you produce multiple 5l cans and try to fill the lot. This is also why they get upset when you pull out a fully approved and acceptable demountable fuel tank for your outboard. (they don't realise its not a storage can).

Something else that should be concidered is that there are many imported petrol cans out there probably from the US. i have some that came over on a bayliner. some are even 25l. Thet are all marked for Gasoline and have various approval marks for use with petrol but these do not apply in the UK. indeed it is actually an offence to import petrol containers from outside of the EU.

Bloody petrol.....its a nightmare.
Stick away from garages that are attached to shops and try smaller independent ones and they'll let you fill anything.
 
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Thanks for the information, it clears up a lot of myths.

The only thing we need now is how much petrol you can store on a petrol outboard boat, in what sized containers, in a ventilated and drained locker that vents over the side etc.. One thing is for sure, it is very difficult to plan a journey on the river, or in our case the Broads without buying over priced stale petrol at riverside marinas.

Now can anyone please explain this...
Ribs, open topped boats are allowed to have a propriatory fuel tank that was supplied with the engine mounted sorry placed on the cockpit floor. Fair enough, where else can it go.
So can anybody explain why a rear cockpit boat like the Viking 26 can have a 25 litre fuel tank loose on the rear cabin floor venting into an accomodation area, with fumes finding their way into the bilge. This is the day fuel tank ie in use whilst cruising, so vent clearly open. Now a few waves a bit of lock movement, and it is easy for the tank to blow liquid petrol through the vent into the cabin. The scary thing is... It meets the BSS approval.
OR ... Have I got this wrong, have I misinterpreted the regulations?
Do I really want to share a lock with them?
 
Over the years I've found many contradictory statements on websites about buying and storing petrol, very hard to tie down the regs completely. I used to race a car, so I'd trailer it to test days with ¾ a tank of fuel and a couple of metal jerry cans full (20l each?) and sometimes I need to go out to get more. No way I could have managed with a couple of 10l plastic ones!

I looked into this when I bought our boat and this was my conclusion -

The following is from the BSS

The amount of spare petrol carried is limited to any combination of the following containers:
· 2 x 10 litre metal containers marked to conform with the 1929 Petroleum Spirit Regulations;
· 2 x 5 litre plastic containers marked to conform with the 1982 Petroleum Spirit Regulations;
· 1 x portable petrol tank of suitable proprietary manufacture of up to a maximum capacity of 27 litres.

So I interpreted this to mean all of the above could be carried as well as my normal fuel tank (as that isn't 'spare' petrol, as long as it is properly stored. On my boat, in the vented fuel locker I can comfortably fit 2 x 25l Mariner tanks plus 1 Halfords 10l metal can so that's what we have. We also have 2 fold up trolleys to make it easier to fetch fuel.

This document from the HSE clearly says 20l metal jerry cans are fine as are 10l plastic ones. http://www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosion/portabable-petrol-storage-containers.pdf

Petrol stations are perfectly free to apply their own restrictions of course and I think this is where much of the confusion stems from. We found that some petrol stations would only allow us to fill 2 x 20l cans if we showed a race licence. We also used the 'pay at pump' pumps at Tesco a few times after hours when the station was unmanned!

So far we haven't had a problem filling up the boat tanks anywhere . . . .


Edit to add - here's a site that contradicts the HSE document I linked to! http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/artic...ry-can-a-guide-on-how-to-legally-store-petrol

And this site suggests the rules changed in 2014 making the 20l legal! http://www.lawnmowersdirect.co.uk/blog/news/petrol-cans-safe-storage/
 
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The problem with jerry cans is that they are not marked for use with petrol.
I have seen some sold as 'fuel cans' and some have 'flammable liquid' on them but none of them will have the legal markings for use in the EU
 
In 2014 the petroleum storage regulations changed, the 1929 regulations have been revoked !! Do BSS know?

Here are the latest regulations, which even allow 10 litre plastic petrol containers.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosion/petroleum-regulations-2014.pdf


I just visited the BSS site, and this is what I found...
Now here is a question regarding the info below, it states do not store more than 30 litres of fuel, is this in total, or is it as spare fuel? Could cause a few problems.


From BSS site.
If you can avoid carrying spare fuel on your boat, the best and safest option is not to have any extra petrol aboard, but if if spare fuel is a necessity, then there's some key points to be followed to help keep you safe. More details here
If spare fuel is a necessity, perhaps to complete a longer river trip, you must comply with UK law. Do not carry more than 30 litres of petrol and ensure that containers are no more than 10 litres if plastic, or 20 litres if metal.
Don’t overfill petrol containers, leave some expansion space. Stow them securely upright and protected from pressurisation by siting them away from intense heat and out of direct sunlight. Never stow spare petrol in the engine or cabin space.
Petrol cans and spare fuel containers should be stored away from any source of ignition, ideally in dedicated drained lockers, where any escaping petrol fuel and/or vapours will flow overboard and dissipate safely.
Take care to protect petrol containers; any that are subject to impacts, dropped or generally treated roughly could start leaking.
Don’t store tools, anchors, mooring pins or other items in the same locker that could cause sparks, damage the petrol containers or block the drains.
Ensure your locker is always in good condition. It must be vapour tight to the top of any petrol can. The drain line from the locker always Fuel can label YS005 90x90needs to run freely with no sagging or blockages and its outlet should be above the waterline.
 
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always fuel my towed boat by leaving the 2 fuel containers in the boat and hopping aboard with the fuel hose---60 litres ---never had a problem
 
lenten said:
always fuel my towed boat by leaving the 2 fuel containers in the boat and hopping aboard with the fuel hose---60 litres ---never had a problem
Click to expand...

That potentially is a very bad thing to do, fuel fillers are on the outside so that the fumes will go overboard. Filling containers inside the boat will mean the fumes go into the boat and stay there! Petrol vapour is heavier than air so will just sink into the bilge or lowest point inside the boat, do you run the bilge blower afterwards?
 
didn t make it clear chris----my boat is basically a big fat open rowing boat with 2 proper 30 litre red plastic fuel containers----filling them unseen in the boat seems to fool the petrol police
 
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