Perthshire Royal Navy officer accused of negligence after Cowes Week yacht crash

l'escargot said:
... I have never been involved in or witnessed a collision other than the one being discussed. Nowhere in your quote is there a mention of any other collision.
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I've never seen a collision with a Merchantman but there have been some pretty impressive collisions amongst yachts.
Some of those with yachts v immoveable object (fort).
 
Talulah said:
I've never seen a collision with a Merchantman but there have been some pretty impressive collisions amongst yachts.
Some of those with yachts v immoveable object (fort).
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I would put expecting an immovable object to get out of the way in the stupidity category - wasn't it your boat that hit one of the Southsea blocks a few weeks ago :eek: (I know you weren't on board)...
 
l'escargot said:
I am sure and have been boating on the Solent for upwards of 40 years. I negotiate the Medina several times a week and the Lymington river and Portsmouth Harbour several times a month. I have never been involved in or witnessed a collision other than the one being discussed. Nowhere in your quote is there a mention of any other collision.
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Likewise, over the last 15 years I can remember only one other collision - between a maxi and the Cowes ferry, just north of the Medina. Probably about 10 years ago now.

Not to say that there aren't plenty of times when people find themselves in the path of a ship, but normally far enough away for it not to be a problem. Occasionally five toots can be heard, just to make sure...

WRT this incident, even if he thought he was across before the ship's turn to port, he was far too close. If you can't see the bridge because the bows are in the way, you're too close. Not much the ship can do about it, though.
 
l'escargot said:
this is the only collision in living memory...
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Seatrout said:
are you sure? You are either very young or have a short memory.

a quote from the solent forum strategic guidance document....

ii. Conflict between recreational activity and other users / uses of the sea
With the wide range of other activities taking place on the Solent it is unsurprising that there is at least some element of conflict or competition between the various forms of activity taking place simultaneously on, in and under the water. Perhaps the most obvious and frequent conflict is between larger, commercial craft and smaller recreational craft. The many ferries and ships which use the Solent have navigational (and commercial) restrictions which mean they are far less manoeuvrable than smaller recreational craft. Anyone attempting to enter or leave Lymington River, Portsmouth Harbour, Southampton Water or the Medina River on a busy summer’s weekend will almost certainly find themselves, at some point, in the path of a ferry, hovercraft, RedJet or large ship. Restricted by their draft, and their sheer size, these craft cannot easily take avoiding action should recreational craft get in their way.
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You definitely appear to have problems with reading comprehension. That's the second time you've posted something in "support" of your argument which in fact says nothing of the sort. The word "collision" isn't even mentioned.

Pete
 
Seatrout said:
Hey, pedantic Pete, does the Ouzo incident (collision) qualify?
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No, since it wasn't in the Solent.

In any case, I'm not making the claim that there have been no collisions in living memory. I think that is probably over-bold, and I doubt was meant to be taken literally (the point was simply that collisions between recreational and commercial vessels in the Solent are very rare). My point was that you posted a lot of words as if they somehow refuted Escargot's point when they simply didn't. You can call that pedantry if you like, but I would suggest that that smacks of someone who is resorting to personal attacks because he knows his argument was weak.

Pete
 
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Seatrout said:
Hey, pedantic Pete, does the Ouzo incident (collision) qualify?
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No. You obviously can't find any incidents of boats colliding with merchant ships in narrow channels in the Solent if you are resorting to using one run down in open water in the English Channel as an example. If you read the MAIB report you will find that the merchant ship was the one criticised...
 
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VicS said:
The wind was roughly WSW. The leg of the race he was on was roughly ENE ( the pink line on the chart posted earlier) I dont understand why he was not on a dead run heading for the next mark. For some reason he appeared to want to get south of the tanker. Afraid of being in its wind shadow as it turned perhaps?
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Perhaps because he was flying an assymetric kite and therefore had to gybe downwind?
As the Irishman did not say, it all depends on from where you started.
 
Resolution said:
Perhaps because he was flying an assymetric kite and therefore had to gybe downwind?
As the Irishman did not say, it all depends on from where you started.
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yes I think it was an assymetric spinnaker

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but he appeared to be sailing on a beam reach, not down wind. I would have thought that a down wind course would have taken him down the starboard side of the ship. Close to it maybe but not straight under the bows.
 
VicS said:
yes I think it was an assymetric spinnaker

1734399.jpg


but he appeared to be sailing on a beam reach, not down wind. I would have thought that a down wind course would have taken him down the starboard side of the ship. Close to it maybe but not straight under the bows.
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That is a remarkable photo. I can't honestly imagine what I'd be thinking with 100,000 tons of orange ship blocking out the sun.
 
I’ve just started reading the May issue of YM. The short article on this incident refers to the crew of Lt Rolly Wilson’s yacht as in including a former Commander Mike Shrives. Of course he may not have been a seaman in the navy. According to the article he is an RYA Yacht master Examiner Instructor.

He may be the lesser pillock than the pillock in charge yet it amazes me someone with this apparent knowledge and experience of sailing would sit idle watching a skipper sail into the path of an oncoming tanker and say nothing.

Would you sit quietly as the skipper of the boat you were crewing on sailed into danger?
 
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Talulah said:
I've never seen a collision with a Merchantman but there have been some pretty impressive collisions amongst yachts.
Some of those with yachts v immoveable object (fort).
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I have to admit In the case of a collision with a fort. The fort is probably not at fault. Though I have heard light houses do jump out in front of boats occasionaly.
 
Might not, the reason for yachts 'unexplained' and poss 'contary' actions become apparent when we hear from Skipper at the hearing?

I recall someone stating (observing) that a Patrol boat is seen in near vicinity to Yacht before accident, then Yacht alters course towards Ship, and Patrol boat powers away down Port side of Ship!

Could it poss be that the Patrol Boat gave 'orders' to Yacht Skipper which brought about the collision?

Ah well, we shall probably see in due course?
 
Uricanejack said:
I’ve just started reading the May issue of YM. The short article on this incident refers to the crew of Lt Rolly Wilson’s yacht as in including a former Commander Mike Shrives. Of course he may not have been a seaman in the navy. According to the article he is an RYA Yacht master Examiner Instructor.

He may be the lesser pillock than the pillock in charge yet it amazes me someone with this apparent knowledge and experience of sailing would sit idle watching a skipper sail into the path of an oncoming tanker and say nothing.

Would you sit quietly as the skipper of the boat you were crewing on sailed into danger?
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In the video you can see one crew member go over the side shortly before the collision. My theory is that's the skipper being chucked overboard by the rest of the crew! ��
 
VicS said:
In the video you can see one crew member go over the side shortly before the collision. My theory is that's the skipper being chucked overboard by the rest of the crew! ��
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Terrific! First laugh I have had out of this incident.
 
BobPrell said:
Remember that assymetric spinnakers are almost always used with the true wind on the quarter, and the apparent wind is always forward of the true wind. Thus a yacht will appear to be on a beam reach or close to it.
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The actual heading appeared to be at about 90° to the wind. If he had turned down wind a minute earlier he would have passed clear, close but clear, of the other side of the tanker.
 
VicS said:
The actual heading appeared to be at about 90° to the wind. If he had turned down wind a minute earlier he would have passed clear, close but clear, of the other side of the tanker.
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Hindsight is wonderful - but at the time I doubt the skipper knew exactly which course the tanker would take - this is why there is an exclusion zone.
TBH, if I found myself in a similar situation (and racing) then the engine would be started ready to be used in anger - I'd rather loose the race than the boat or even life!
 
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