Perthshire Royal Navy officer accused of negligence after Cowes Week yacht crash
- Thread starter TQA
- Start date
l'escargot
Well-Known Member
In many circumstances it does, but I don't think for one moment the skipper in this situation got there thinking that was the answer to his problem.
I find it hard to believe that there are still many stupid people about who don't know that there ColRegs and think they can make up their own rules like "...plastic gives way to steel...", "...leisure gives way to commerce..." and such like... They wouldn't last five minutes without being in, or causing, a collision in the Solent on a busy weekend, spreading their own confused thinking - they're the ones most likely giving WAFIs a bad name...
Seatrout
Well-Known Member
?
(Obviously Rule 9 does "otherwise require" in this case)
Pete
Rule 18 continues:
Sailing vessels that are underway must stay out of the way of vessels not under command, restricted in ability to maneuver, or engaged in fishing. (The definitions of these vessel classes are contained in Rule 3.)
INTERNATIONAL
INLAND
(b) A sailing vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing.
(b) A sailing vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver; and
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing.
Sailing vessels that are underway must stay out of the way of vessels not under command, restricted in ability to maneuver, or engaged in fishing. (The definitions of these vessel classes are contained in Rule 3.)
For the definition of a 'vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre', refer to Reg. 3 in which you will find that any merchant vessel navigating the Solent will be included along with the tanker in this example. Rule 9 also makes it as clear as the nose on your face that plastic and wood give way to steel.
In another thread someone suggested that the Solent was an amazing exception to global rules on the avoidance of collisions, in that more complex rules are required. I say, 'Rowlocks' to that... much simpler rules are required. Keep out of the way of merchant shipping and don't be so stupid as to have a huge yacht race passing across a narrow and busy shipping lane.
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ChrisE
Well-Known Member
Generally +1.
Don't see why you should hold a race where you like but you do have to acknowledge and respect the rules of the road the same way other users do.
I'll be interested to see how the case goes .....
Don't see why you should hold a race where you like but you do have to acknowledge and respect the rules of the road the same way other users do.
I'll be interested to see how the case goes .....
Resolution
Well-Known Member
Time to trump you with an American - Captain Edward Howe Watson.
prv
Well-Known Member
Don't be absurd. Very little dredging, pipelaying, aviation operations, etc conducted by tankers in the Solent. I think you meant to refer to "constrained by draught".
In a narrow channel, yes. This includes the Solent. That's precisely what I said at the bottom of my post.
Not generally, out at sea, which you seem to want to be the case.
Well, maybe there's an argument for that. I don't agree with you, but let's say there is. I still think you need to wait until your rules actually are the official rules before you start following them.
Pete
Resolution
Well-Known Member
Actually it was in this thread, post number 96 if I recall, that I said more complex rules were required in the Solent. The authorities obviously think so, or why else did they come up with the MPZ (in addition to the regular colregs).
Your last suggestion is best filed in a very dark place.
fireball
Well-Known Member
There is a heck of a lot of commercial shipping in the Solent that is less restricted by draft than the (racing) yachts.
Given the huge number of both commercial and leisure users there's remarkably little in the way of accidents and I assume this is the only incident of note in the last few years (I've not heard of any others) - so I'd suggest your "don't be so stupid" comment is rather er ... stupid ...
Also, given that the whole of the solent is taken up by "narrow and busy shipping lanes" then we'd have to ban yacht racing totally - rather a severe knee jerk reaction to a single incident in many thousand interactions between vessels ...
fireball
Well-Known Member
I really don't think more complex rules would work ... if the vast majority are able to comply with the current set then it's more sensible to address the few.
TBH, I avoid all problems of avoidance by not being in the way (of large commercials) to start with ... you're never far from safe water. But then I'm not racing and can add a mile or two to my journey without worry.
prv
Well-Known Member
I think you miss the point - we already have the "more complex rules". Resolution was referring to the Precautionary Area and the associated Moving Prohibited Zones.
Pete
l'escargot
Well-Known Member
Rubbish. There are numerous merchant vessels every day navigating the Solent that don't qualify as a 'vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre'.
prv
Well-Known Member
Indeed. There are also quite a number that are not constrained by their draught either.
Pete
DJE
Well-Known Member
I still can't understand why the yacht couldn't gybe though.
Poignard
Well-Known Member
At least he had the decency to carry the can!
Seatrout
Well-Known Member
I now fully understand the mindset of the Solent sailor.
l'escargot
Well-Known Member
What, that they try to operate under the rules and not make up their own? They must be getting something right - with all those boats, ships and races out there, this is the only collision in living memory...
Resolution
Well-Known Member
My guess - and I stress this is only a guess - is that he had got into the awkward zone where he was expecting the tanker to start his sharp turn to starboard and a gybe would have put him bang on the anticipated new course. As the tanker carried on towards Gurnard (cf flood tide ) he was forced to point higher and higher until his spinnaker collapsed, his speed dropped and left him as we have seen, stuffed.
I do wonder a) what sound signals if any the tanker made before the 5 hoots as it hit; and b) whether the HM patrol launch said anything to the yacht in the seconds before impact - it certainly shot close past.
None of the above of course excuses him from getting into the awkward zone - but maybe there were other factors of which we do not know.
Seatrout
Well-Known Member
are you sure? You are either very young or have a short memory.
a quote from the solent forum strategic guidance document....
ii. Conflict between recreational activity and other users / uses of the sea
With the wide range of other activities taking place on the Solent it is unsurprising that there is at least some element of conflict or competition between the various forms of activity taking place simultaneously on, in and under the water. Perhaps the most obvious and frequent conflict is between larger, commercial craft and smaller recreational craft. The many ferries and ships which use the Solent have navigational (and commercial) restrictions which mean they are far less manoeuvrable than smaller recreational craft. Anyone attempting to enter or leave Lymington River, Portsmouth Harbour, Southampton Water or the Medina River on a busy summer’s weekend will almost certainly find themselves, at some point, in the path of a ferry, hovercraft, RedJet or large ship. Restricted by their draft, and their sheer size, these craft cannot easily take avoiding action should recreational craft get in their way.
See http://www.solentforum.org/publications/strategic_guidance/SG rectour final.pdf
I do sympathise with your plight in the Solent, it cannot be enjoyable and relaxing, which I thought was the point of sailing?
VicS
Well-Known Member
The wind was roughly WSW. The leg of the race he was on was roughly ENE ( the pink line on the chart posted earlier) I dont understand why he was not on a dead run heading for the next mark. For some reason he appeared to want to get south of the tanker. Afraid of being in its wind shadow as it turned perhaps?
l'escargot
Well-Known Member
I am sure and have been boating on the Solent for upwards of 40 years. I negotiate the Medina several times a week and the Lymington river and Portsmouth Harbour several times a month. I have never been involved in or witnessed a collision other than the one being discussed. Nowhere in your quote is there a mention of any other collision.
If you obey the same rules as the commercial craft and don't make up your own stupid ones there is no conflict and it is as relaxing a place to sail as anywhere else - in fact I think there are few better places to sail and judging by the number of boats, a lot of other people agree. The only near misses I have seen have been caused by people behaving in a stupid or unpredictable manner outside of the rules.
I sympathise with people who sail in areas where they don't have the opportunity to develop the confidence and knowledge of how to interact safely with other vessels...
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