Perthshire Royal Navy officer accused of negligence after Cowes Week yacht crash

[VicS]

Originally Posted by VicS
I thought it was his own boat !

Lt Wilson was the skipper of the Royal Naval Sailing Association's vessel Atalanta of Chester when it allegedly crossed the path of oil tanker Hanne Knutsen on 6 August, 2011.

Thats from the BBC link in the OP. Of course it may be wrong.

Just out of curiosity. A RN Captain is approved to command a ship and does so as part of his service in the RN i.e. not a desk jockey. For whatever reason when he is on leave, he takes command of a commercial vessel that requires a licensed Captain and would be well within his capabilities and experience. He then bends it and it's his fault. Would that transgression in a civilian environment also make him accountable in the RN environment, in an official manner?

Pretty sure that even if he was not listed as the owner in the list of competitors he was on the Mars Database.

 

[l'escargot]

At the risk of being verbally abused isn't the real problem here the laying of a race course that crosses the deep-water channel? Anyone who has sailed there knows that big ships frequently appear, seemingly out of nowhere, and that they are constrained by draught. I think all of us must have been surprised at least once by how fast they move and how little time we have to get out of the way (I know I have). So deliberately arranging for a bunch of small yachts to be racing in an area where big ships are constrained seems to be the root cause of the problem to me? It must be frustrating for the racers as well, to have all your hard work lost because you have to give way to a big ship?

Is there a problem? I don't recall there ever being a similar incident, which is remarkable considering the number of boats out there during Cowes Week - and other regattas, there is racing all round the Solent every weekend during the season, not just Cowes Week. If anything, it is non racing boats that cause more problems and I am saying that as a non racer. Prohibiting small boats from crossing deep water channels would make the Solent pretty much a no go area and certainly prevent people who berth anywhere in Southampton water from going very far...

 

[fireball]

Well - it will certainly be interesting to hear what his defence is ..

From - http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/news/534397/navy-man-in-court-over-collision#sXwrezOJgh6QAqLw.99
The prosecution has already said:

Mr Handley said: "We don't say the defendant didn't see the Hanne Knutsen at all - that's obviously not the case.

"We do say he failed to take a full appraisal of the situation."

Hmm - Big orange thing heading towards you .. likelyhood of a protest hearing if you're found to be in it's path ... I know which way I'd've headed - and probably with the engine on by then too - but then I wasn't skipper or helm.
So, as I said - it'll be interesting to hear what the skipper says in defence of his actions - given that he shouldn't have been within 100m of the side of the vessel or 1km in front ...

 

[[70521]]

Not at all. As a frequent user of the waters in question, I am trying to come up with a suggestion that will reduce the risk of this type of incident happening again. Got a better idea?

Follow the usual rules.

I don't race so have no idea what sort of pressure the crew was under to win, but having looked at the video in YouTube several times cannot see why any skipper would take the risk apart from it being either:

1) The secret filming of the opening shot of the next Bond film; or (considering it was a RN crew)

2) our friends from Poole having a fun day out on the water.

 

[Bilgediver]

He was my CO for a couple of years and was in fact an excellent all round seaman as well as a brilliant tactitian

Not everybody uses the anchor of a passing ship to assist a gybe !!! Just got it slightly wrong and over stressed the mast

 

[maxi77]

Not everybody uses the anchor of a passing ship to assist a gybe !!! Just got it slightly wrong and over stressed the mast

For a moment I though you were referring to the time when Warspite had a small anchor problem south of the Hebrides. Sandy was the CO and I was, amongst other things, cable officer

 

[TQA]

I don't know quite why but when I watch the video clip I hear the following;-

"Corrrrr", "Ooh, nasty...", "Oh lumme!", THEN "Left hand down a bit". FOLLOWED BY "Ev'rybody down!"

Anyway I have put more popcorn on the stove.

 

[Uricanejack]

Thats from the BBC link in the OP. Of course it may be wrong.

Just out of curiosity. A RN Captain is approved to command a ship and does so as part of his service in the RN i.e. not a desk jockey. For whatever reason when he is on leave, he takes command of a commercial vessel that requires a licensed Captain and would be well within his capabilities and experience. He then bends it and it's his fault. Would that transgression in a civilian environment also make him accountable in the RN environment, in an official manner?

RN qualifications are completly seperate from civilian certification.
RN Officers who are or were in the apropriate branch ie Seaman or Engineer can use the "Watch Keeping Sea Time" they acrued in the RN to write the civilian qualifications for OOW up to Mater Mariner (Class 1) or Chief Engineer (Class 1.) They still have to go through the Marine Collage and pass the same exams.

As for acountability no clew but it would seam a little bit unfair to charge twice.

Just an odd fact or bit of old history. at one time there were no civilian qualifications. Just he Jims a good chap hire him. Many civilian ships owners would choose to hire former Naval sailing Masters and Masters Mates as they were certified.
the original civilian Masters and Mates Certification was based on the naval version.

 

[Uricanejack]

Cowes Week, ABP, Red Funnel, and SCRA took it very seriously and ran a safety seminar at RSYC early last season. ABP now provide a pilot to work onshore with the Cowes Week committee and liaise with Southampton VTS. They are also trying hard to educate pilots about the behaviour of racing yachts. I went to the seminar on behalf of our club and came away thinking that it was a serious attempt to improve the situation.

But surely there can be no excuse for not knowing about the exclusion zone around large ships in the Thorn Channel. It's on every chart and in every set of sailing instructions.

A sensible way to reduce the liklyhood of it happening again.
Id agree there is no excuse for not knowing. I would suspect he knew figured he would take the risk and misjuged it. I would also suspect he did not fully understand the risk involved. He probabaly does now his boats bent, his friends overboard and hurt, and his shorts needing changed.

 

[Resolution]

3 errors - escorted by 1 patrol boat, smaller vessels are allowed to enter the channel marked off by buoys and he breached no international navigation rules by entering the channel...

Bravo! go to the top of the class!

 

[Resolution]

3 errors - escorted by 1 patrol boat, smaller vessels are allowed to enter the channel marked off by buoys and he breached no international navigation rules by entering the channel...

Hey l'escargot, having just watched one of the film clips again, what is the pilot boat doing heading back down the port side of the tanker a few seconds before the impact?

 

[l'escargot]

Hey l'escargot, having just watched one of the film clips again, what is the pilot boat doing heading back down the port side of the tanker a few seconds before the impact?

That's what I have always wondered - crew on the escort boat appear to talk to the crew on the yacht and they then head off at speed, coming round the port side of the tanker.

It doesn't appear to me to be the action that they should take if they believe there is about to be a collision - in those circumstances I would have expected them to either throw a tow line or stand off ready to pull people out the water following a collision.

My opinion has always been that they could have possibly told the yacht to carry on as the tanker was turning to starboard and it would clear them. Then the spinnaker collapses as the yacht loses wind and for some reason the tanker does not turn as fast as anticipated. But that is just a personal interpretation.

It will be interesting to see if the words exchanged between the yacht and escort boat crews and any communications between the escort boat and the pilot on the bridge come out at the hearing.

I could of course be totally wrong and I am sure someone who knows much better than me will be along to say so shortly...

 

[Twister_Ken]

Just a little extra to ponder. My understanding is that the entire crew were RN officers, some entitled to wear far more gold braid than the skipper. Yet none of them seems to have appreciated that they were standing into considerable danger. Perhaps a touch of the Nelsonian "Steer for the sound of the guns"?

 

[Tony Cross]

Is there a problem? I don't recall there ever being a similar incident, which is remarkable considering the number of boats out there during Cowes Week - and other regattas, there is racing all round the Solent every weekend during the season, not just Cowes Week. If anything, it is non racing boats that cause more problems and I am saying that as a non racer. Prohibiting small boats from crossing deep water channels would make the Solent pretty much a no go area and certainly prevent people who berth anywhere in Southampton water from going very far...

I take your point about the rarity of such incidents, it is quite remarkable. I wasn't suggesting that small boats be prohibited from crossing deep water channels, I was just suggesting that it might not be wise to lay a racing course across them?

 

[BobPrell]

I take your point about the rarity of such incidents, it is quite remarkable. I wasn't suggesting that small boats be prohibited from crossing deep water channels, I was just suggesting that it might not be wise to lay a racing course across them?

Having a ship cross your path is just one of those things, like pulling a bad chance card in a board game.

 

[KellysEye]

I find it odd that he is pleading not guilty. If there were just witnesses then a barrister would challenge them, but there is a video that proves he broke COLREGS. How on earth a skipper that could see a huge ship on a track to be in front of him and not take avoidance action beggars belief.

 

[Sandyman]

I find it odd that he is pleading not guilty. If there were just witnesses then a barrister would challenge them, but there is a video that proves he broke COLREGS. How on earth a skipper that could see a huge ship on a track to be in front of him and not take avoidance action beggars belief.

Not if they were all RN officers it doesn't

 

[maxi77]

I find it odd that he is pleading not guilty. If there were just witnesses then a barrister would challenge them, but there is a video that proves he broke COLREGS. How on earth a skipper that could see a huge ship on a track to be in front of him and not take avoidance action beggars belief.

Unlike his legal team we do not know everything about this case, perhaps they are aware of some problems for the prosecution

 

[l'escargot]

I find it odd that he is pleading not guilty. If there were just witnesses then a barrister would challenge them, but there is a video that proves he broke COLREGS. How on earth a skipper that could see a huge ship on a track to be in front of him and not take avoidance action beggars belief.

Depends what he is charged with - the article says he has been charged with "negligence" not breaching ColRegs. He may well have believed he was taking avoiding action.

 

[Boathook]

I take your point about the rarity of such incidents, it is quite remarkable. I wasn't suggesting that small boats be prohibited from crossing deep water channels, I was just suggesting that it might not be wise to lay a racing course across them?

In the Solent nearly any racing course will cross shipping lanes.