Persuading Club Members

Stemar said:
Another club I looked at required bar duty a few times a year, with no exemptions.
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I am TT and therefore my knowledge of alcohol beverages is Minimal, and therefore I would be useless in the bar The last time I was given bar duties I swapped dingy park work with a lady that was not up to manual labour
 
The Q said:
All our safety boats have "Rescue" on the sides, it's some clubs have panicked and removed "Rescue " for the word "Safety". They are worried if you fail to rescue they might get sued.. Though over the years I've rescued more tourists than competitors.. Fun trying to move a broken down 40ft Hire cruiser off the middle of the course in a cross wind with a little dory..
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If an incident finished up in the Coroners court and the Coroner asked "What are the different duties of a rescue boat and a Safety boat?" what would the answer be?
 
I think the issues now are getting younger people into boating, and when you do they invariably earn more money at work than they would lose as a penalty for not showing up for the work party.
So what is a minor pita at the minute is going to be a much bigger problem in 10/15 yrs time as the older club members pass away.
Add in the fact that most young people simply cannot afford to go boating inn the first place.
 
Our club has the need for working parties and it has always been on a voluntary basis. We have members aged from cadets to those in their nineties, so co-opting people for work s not going to happen. Those of us in the er senior group pay a full subscription and don’t put as much strain on club resources. On the whole, things even out, and those who contribute most, and there are fine examples of those, gain both recognition for it and prestige within the club, which is fair enough.
 
I think people have become less sociable/community minded. I'm certainly less so than my father.

I well remember the occasion when someone mentioned that the sailing club needed a new Hon. Treasurer and my father accepted the role for many years - until he retired and moved away to another club. In the intervening years he went through the various flag officer ranks whilst still endlessly chasing for subs etc and also still doing his share of OOD duties and work parties. Possibly encouraged by his example I became a fleet captain and sat on committees in my late teens and also hindered at work parties - my low point being falling in whilst building a landing stage one January. At least it gave other members a good laugh. And why was all this done? I think it was just accepted as inevitable; something you just did.

But roll forwards, I married, got a career and a mortgage. I was in my forties before I got back into sailing and, when I did, it was (at least for me) a family-based pastime. I didn't want even to join a club and the "inevitability" of social endeavour had ceased to have any meaning for me.

Why didn't this happen to earlier generations who also had jobs and bills to pay.? That I don't know.
 
benjenbav said:
I think people have become less sociable/community minded. I'm certainly less so than my father. I remember the occasion when someone mentioned that the sailing club needed a new Hon. Treasurer and my father accepted the role for the years - until he retired and moved away to another club. In the intervening years he went through the various flag officer ranks whilst endlessly chasing for subs etc and still doing his share of OOD duties and work parties. Possibly encouraged by his example I became a fleet captain and sat on committees in my late teens and also hindered at work parties - my low point being falling in whilst building a landing stage in January. At least it gave others a good laugh. And why was all this done? I think it was just accepted as inevitable; something you just did.

But roll forwards, I married, got a career and a mortgage. I was in my forties before I got back into sailing and, when I did, it was (for me) a family based pastime. I didn't join a club and the "inevitability" of social endeavour had ceased to have any meaning for me.

Why didn't this happen to earlier generations who also had jobs and bills to pay.? That I don't know.
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I think that your experience is a personal one, and it doesn’t apply to many of the people I know and see. I am not a very active club person, but I have enjoyed the ones I have belonged to over the years, and since lockdown it has been a valuable source of company, with other sources such as trouble being limited.
 
Wansworth said:
Why wouldn’t anybody not want to join in……isn’t that the whole ethos of a club
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As others have said, it depends hugely on how far away a member lives from the club, their family commitments and the nature of their employment, if any.
Easy for somebody who is retired and/or lives within 30 minutes of the club. Rather more tricky for a 30 something juggling an intensive full time job (perhaps travelling overseas), young family and a long travel to the club. Been there …… left the club.
The option of extra payments from those time poor but cash rich is a good one in such circumstances.
 
In my club members have to do two duties each year. You can choose dates and duties if you are quick enough otherwise they will be allocated to you. These cover OD, AOD, rescue boat crew, refreshments and bar. There are also winter working parties which it is hoped you attend at least one - I go to at least two. I also drive the mooring inspection boat having previously been crew and I am on the lift team for lift in and lift out of the keel boats. There are a surprising number of other roles covered by club members who perhaps don't get the credit for the amount of work they put in because they are behind the scenes. I'm not one for meetings and committees so I leave that to others.
 
Successful clubs get the balance between inputs and out puts right. As johnalison said in #24 different members can contribute to the club in different ways, and in return happily enjoy different aspects of the club activities. In my (rather posh) club we have a valuable number of very wealthy yachting enthusiasts. Mostly they get their thrill from racing vastly expensive yachts, of which most of us can only dream. But with a bit of encouragement they also fund a mass of racing in much smaller yachts, in which our younger members can compete. As a result we have an incredibly successful academy plus loads of younger members of varying skills. In the background many of us older members get on with our self-funded cruising activities in all the best places around the world, but with a good supply of able-bodied crew when needed. Right now, it really feels like the club has got the balance right. Hope it lasts!
 
We have organised working weekends and also informal work days, these are also linked to social events, many members travel a fair distance, I think you need to keep any weekend fun as well and not be too strict on amount done or not. We do have a core of local members who spend more time chilling out and do jobs whist putting the world to right, or maybe hiding from SWMBO.
I don’t think that just allowing members to buy out is a long term solution and could as many can just afford to pay and the jobs still need doing.
also I think you need to really make sure that all understand that most tasks are open to all, it can often be that in established clubs “Fred” always does that etc can stop others helping.
 
If someone wants to go sailing they may only have the Sunday free. Due to commitments, they may not have every sunday ( why on earth do stupid in laws decide to have BBQs on a sunday in the summer & expect one to attend? As if one even WANTS to go anyway).
Sometimes they arrive, after driving for 1 hour, to find racing cancelled, due to weather not playing ball. But how frustrating to turn up & find that they are expected to sit in the safety boat all day watching others do the sailing. Or find that they are expected to stand on the bridge counting 12 boats over the line.
So why would a member want to come to a club that expects that of them. Why not join an active class & just sail the opens, making use of each club facilities, every couple of weeks?

Just paying to avoid the task is NOT the way (my opinion, as money causes argument) unless the whole club is run on an employed basis where repairs etc are done by outside contractors & bar staff & canteen staff ( possibly some members) are paid.
So work days- yes in the winter they are expected to turn up. However, from 500 members we get 30 to attend 2 -3 work days & 20 of those will be the locals

We are fortunate that a large (30 %) of our membership lives in the village & life revolves around the club. But one has to accept that not all members should do more than a couple of safety boat duties & we have a system whereby they are online & can swop them with others to suit.
We have "Dad's army" ( nickname for the older retired members who service the gear, moorings, race marks etc) sadly now much reduced in numbers. We do the heavy week day tasks. It is really something as a hobby for us. Wander down the club & do a few jobs.
But I think it is wrong to force people to interact. Make things easy to join in- of course. have a variety of activities. This means people have a reason not to rush home after sailing. We have canoeing, dinghies & cruisers. We have social events every weekend & we have open meetings, some of which are nationals.
Be inviting, but not expectant. It just puts people off.
One final thing concerns the committee. It is wrong to let the same people run the club year after year. We did that for a long time. There became a group know as "the 3 witches & the club owner" Anyone arriving were immediately put off by miserable uninviting types with the wrong personalities. But they had done the principle jobs for years so everyone thought it cosy to leave them to it. Even though they knew it was wrong. Some were put off for putting themselves off for standing as the "old guard" were difficult & they soon stood down. People applying for membership even commented adversly about the "greeting" they got.

Finally the club woke up & at one AGM there was a massive clear out. Falling tears & a lot of upset. The new committee have struggled to cope; being untrained with little experience of the tasks. They have introduced new membership systems, the bar has better payment systems, there have been improvements to the club house & changing rooms, RIBS launching tractors, Communications are now online. Grants have been obtained. Dinghy park tidied up, old unused boats removed & the area tidied.
The new committee have messed up in lots of areas & some are just dying for it to fail.
But when one comes to the club now they get a different atmosphere with better social events. The sailing programme has been changed to suit sailors who do the sailing.
I have been in other organisations where people have had the same job for years. They may be good at it but the personality may not suit all. They actually put people off joining a club, or are a contributory factor to them leaving.

So changing people round regularly, changes personalities . That reduces friction & people do not leave because A said to B something which C did not like- I actually overheard an almost similar complaint, when I sat near a committee meeting when I visted the sailing club in Grimsby. A committee member said they would have resigned if it was not for the fact they had just paid their subs. So it was not just our club.
 
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Duty days to cover racing were a real issue at MYC.

Insisting on two double crewed safety boats and a couple of people to run the race box on Saturday and Sunday mornings added up to a lot more man days than volunteers.

Baring in mind the majority of the fleet were Dragon’s and Sonata’s, so quite why they needed following about all afternoon was a mystery to me.

One minute they’re all guffawing in the bar about how they’ve moved their mast forward 5mm and ‘she points so much better, I can really feel it etc’ and of course ‘we had the kite up in 25 knots!’ and then at a Sailing Committee meeting they say they’re unable to pick up a man over board due to the lack of an engine so want someone to follow them around all day.

I’m confused, your either the elite Medway racers or you can’t carry out a basic sailing manoeuvre?

Also groundings…very common. If the safety boats weren’t on standby I’d be surprised if people would take the piss with 2 inches of water under the keel on a falling tide if it meant they’d have six hours to kill waiting for some water wishing they had brought some sandwiches and a jumper.

At least one safety boat has had an engine destroyed after sucking up mud and overheating trying to make sure someone wasn’t late home for their tea after running aground.

For some of us self reliance and independence is a major attraction to sailing and boating in general, I wouldn’t expect someone to give up an afternoon following me about just in case.

Volunteering is a good way to meet other members and how I got to know a lot of people but when you insist someone who isn’t interested in racing gives up a day of their time to facilitate your small group who want to race, you’re well on your way to reducing your membership.

Be nice to your members, engage and encourage!
 
the club i was at for 12 years until Feb last year had work sundays which were usually fun, but also the moorings barge duty which was dangerous with high tensioned ropes, loud, dirty and fumes from the welding and angle grinders. I dont miss that at all and thought it was ridiculous and would have rather paid more for the PLA to do it. I also got involved with the discos and bought a load of lights for the club and was at one point part of the bar committee but the trouble with that was you were wanted behind the bar for events when you rather be out on your boat especially when you work in the week and many are retired with lots of free time. It was 2K cheaper than the marina of course but the equipment for lauch and recover is old and a lot needs replacing.
 
Having had years of personal experience by being a member of various Yacht Clubs , some large some small ; one a National Class Club ; I might mention that not all the Clubs were enthusiastic about membership , new members that is ;

Often the Committee decided its agenda and did not engage it with Member , just expected members to participate , on a regular basis

Oft new members at a rare meeting would be scoffed at and sidelined by the Chairman , so the enevitable happened , some of us just Walked Away ;
 
Thistle said:
I know a lot of clubs say that they expect all members to participate in work parties and in race officer / rescue rotas etc. My impression is that in practice these duties still fall to a relatively small core of active and community spirited members. Has anyone come across any good ways of persuading the more reluctant members to become involved?
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Fine them...
 
I'm not sure if I'm being reasonable or not, in thinking that the keenest racers ought also to be called upon most often for race duties.

At my club there are plenty of ancient, neglected boats, possibly belonging to ancient neglected members, which/who never even launch. But their subscriptions keep being paid, buoying the club's finances without requiring any effort or outgoing in return...

...is it reasonable for a club to require members to effectively give up three days per year to support an activity they never choose to take part in?

Clearly I could have joined other clubs, but for various reasons I like where I am. I just don't recognise the basis for obliging members to do anything that they don't expect or require to have performed in return, for them.
 
dancrane said:
...is it reasonable for a club to require members to effectively give up three days per year to support an activity they never choose to take part in?
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Yes.. it's what being part of a club is about... ;)

dancrane said:
Clearly I could have joined other clubs, but for various reasons I like where I am. I just don't recognise the basis for obliging members to do anything that they don't expect or require to have performed in return, for them.
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The benefits of belonging to the club either out weigh, or don't, the social and financial costs.. very few duties are a pleasure, or we wouldn't be having the enjoyable discussion we are.. for me I just look upon them as a cost, that ultimately makes my membership cheaper (as the club doesn't have to hire people in) so I don't worry about it..

Having said that, in my club, I will always look for the duties that occur outside of my usual sailing time...
 
dancrane said:
I'm not sure if I'm being reasonable or not, in thinking that the keenest racers ought also to be called upon most often for race duties.

At my club there are plenty of ancient, neglected boats, possibly belonging to ancient neglected members, which/who never even launch. But their subscriptions keep being paid, buoying the club's finances without requiring any effort or outgoing in return...

...is it reasonable for a club to require members to effectively give up three days per year to support an activity they never choose to take part in?
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Have say 12 races in a series, 11 raced and one to do duties on, have to do duties to qualify for series. That way everyone who wants to race also helps out on of the races..
 
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