Personal protection for the winter, run out of duffle coats.

[Kelpie]

Meant to say, check out fladden flotation suits, I had this earmarked for winter sailing on bethfran, but ended up using my existing climbing gear. Still think it could be great, if you end up in the water, and seemed great value. It was someone else's suggestion, maybe dylan winter's, but I've always remembered it.

See my post above.
They aren't a substitute for an immersion suit, and I wouldn't want to rely on one as a sole means of buoyancy, but for properly cold conditions they are great. Just watch out for doing anything that involves breaking a sweat as they can get uncomfortable very quickly.
I wear one daily for work, and have dinghy sailed in my own one for years (winter only!)

 

[[70521]]

Interesting to see the comments about cotton oddly it works for me. I am intolerant to wool, if I wear it I spend the day scratching and people think I have lice!

 

[moomba]

Cotton is a natural fiber and one of the most breathable fabrics and offers some airflow for drying out the dampness. Because cotton is a natural fiber, it absorbs moisture rather than repelling it , never wear cotton up a mountain , or wear you will be sweating as this will keep you cold, look at man made fibers for your base layer , or something that wicks the moisture out towards your outwear skin which should also be breathable , by doing this you dont need as many layers
a good baselayer a windproof fleece and a good waterproof but breathable jacket is a good layering system
winter mountaineer

 

[solent clown]

interesting about getting sweaty. I have the opposite problem to Karen in that I dont really feel the cold as much on a boat as she does. I only ever get cold when I have to do some extertion, or get wound up and sweat. So a better base layer is a must for me. Previously on smaller boats it was wetsuit and jumpers, but even with a tee shirt under the wetsuit I always got to hot, then too cold.
When wee bought the Trident back from Portsmouth this February it was very cold, a bit wet, and then a bit blizzardy... No dodgers, several hours trip, and the main discomfort for me was cold tiller hand, and sweatiness making me alternately hot then a bit clammy. Base layers are going to be the bit I pay most attention to

 

[Sailingsaves]

interesting about getting sweaty. I have the opposite problem to Karen in that I dont really feel the cold as much on a boat as she does. I only ever get cold when I have to do some extertion, or get wound up and sweat. So a better base layer is a must for me. Previously on smaller boats it was wetsuit and jumpers, but even with a tee shirt under the wetsuit I always got to hot, then too cold.
When wee bought the Trident back from Portsmouth this February it was very cold, a bit wet, and then a bit blizzardy... No dodgers, several hours trip, and the main discomfort for me was cold tiller hand, and sweatiness making me alternately hot then a bit clammy. Base layers are going to be the bit I pay most attention to

As an ex-soldier you will probably remember the Norgie; that was luxury in those distant days. We were taught the layering system and the importance of ZIPPED neckware; get cold, zips up and headover on. Too hot, unzip and let heat out at the neck, from the core upwards.

My best year of sailing was with a merino base layer, 150, then Mountain Warehouse second wicking layer (synthetic) with zip at neck and vented back and pits. Third layer on top (Mountain warehouse called it a shell). Zipped again. Then either a windproof smock or a waterproof jacket. Woolly hat on and off, on and off...

I went a whole month with that merino next to my skin (feels just like cotton, but is a magical material especially if washed with the special Nikwax for wool and a few drops of lanolin oil added) and it did not wiff after a whole month. Sounds gross and unbelievable, but it is a magical material I say (can't beat Mother Nature). And it wicked the sweat straight to the second layer.

I did buy the merino in a half price sale. £30 instead of £60. I still call that an expensive luxury buy, but it was worth it. I have had to darn 3 small holes and I always hand wash it. The cheap mountain warehouse stuff did its job too (surprisingly for such cheap stuff).

 

[solent clown]

Yes, I do not only remember the norgie, I still have a couple! Karen makes us headovers every winter, surprisingly effective in crochet! Not as long or adaptable as the old green sleeve but lovely.
Merino it is then for base layers

 

[lw395]

For early/late season dinghy sailing, I have a 'Rooster' fleece lined spray top.
Spray tops are great when you don't want a full oily jacket on a bigger boat.
Windproof, breathable, good neck seal.
I've worn mine a bit in Wednesday night yacht racing. An oily jacket goes over the top for long beats in the rain, and comes off for the hectic mark roundings.

For real winter, I wear a drysuit. For winter in the RIB, I wear a drysuit and oily jacket over the top.

I don't think the perfect sailing gloves have been invented yet?

 

[Mrssolentclown]

Now go tell him what he needs to buy you...[/QUOTE]

Thank you my list has been prepared and I do now have a 3 in 1 jacket from Lidl - thanks to person who gave us heads up about Lidl they do have waterproofs in at the moment, jacket was £24.99.
Went to Go Outdoors picked up a Regatta fleece in the sale.

I opted for bigger sizes than normal to allow for layers on colder days.

I am still unsure about cotton t-shirts, as some said yes some of you have said no to them. I won't go for Merino wool as every time I have bought a jumper like this I have shrunk it!

Great thread (as always this forum is brilliant) thanks guys x

 

[Mrssolentclown]

For early/late season dinghy sailing, I have a 'Rooster' fleece lined spray top.
Spray tops are great when you don't want a full oily jacket on a bigger boat.
Windproof, breathable, good neck seal.
I've worn mine a bit in Wednesday night yacht racing. An oily jacket goes over the top for long beats in the rain, and comes off for the hectic mark roundings.

For real winter, I wear a drysuit. For winter in the RIB, I wear a drysuit and oily jacket over the top.

I don't think the perfect sailing gloves have been invented yet?

No but I think the sailing gloves for sale in Decathlon at the moment look pretty good!

Plus I crochet so can make cowls, wrist warmers and hats (handmade is sometimes best)

 

[moomba]

Now go tell him what he needs to buy you...

Thank you my list has been prepared and I do now have a 3 in 1 jacket from Lidl - thanks to person who gave us heads up about Lidl they do have waterproofs in at the moment, jacket was £24.99.
Went to Go Outdoors picked up a Regatta fleece in the sale.

I opted for bigger sizes than normal to allow for layers on colder days.

I am still unsure about cotton t-shirts, as some said yes some of you have said no to them. I won't go for Merino wool as every time I have bought a jumper like this I have shrunk it!

Great thread (as always this forum is brilliant) thanks guys x[/QUOTE]

Cotton is a great fabric but as I said above if you start to sweat then the wetness sticks to your body therefore transferring heat from your body outwards , remember water (sweat) will convect heat as Water is way better in convection heat transfer purposes than air, as the capacity is higher and so is the density (about 1000:1.2)
why you get cold leaving the swimming pool until you dry yourself as the water on your body is throwing heat out
now if your a non sweater no problems but if you exert yourself and sweat you will get cold with cotton on , a good wicking base layer , go outdoors and aldi all offer good cheap ones , and merino is rather good to

 

[[70521]]

Cotton is a great fabric but as I said above if you start to sweat then the wetness sticks to your body therefore transferring heat from your body outwards , remember water (sweat) will convect heat as Water is way better in convection heat transfer purposes than air, as the capacity is higher and so is the density (about 1000:1.2)why you get cold leaving the swimming pool until you dry yourself as the water on your body is throwing heat out now if your a non sweater no problems but if you exert yourself and sweat you will get cold with cotton on , a good wicking base layer , go outdoors and aldi all offer good cheap ones , and merino is rather good to

But it works for some people, including me. A long time ago I was extreme winter climber and Mountain Rescue Team member. In both activities there were times of high activity and hours doing very little, e.g. belaying on a pitch with a wind chill of -20'C, the base layer needs to be worked out by the individual what works for some will not work for others. In sailing there is very little highly active work loads unless you are racing.

Personally, I hate the feel of artificial fiber next to the skin, something else for the individual to consider.

 

[solent clown]

thats an interesting point Sandy about the level of physical exertion being very much less than in a dinghy or small boat. A point bought back home to us in the last couple of weeks when we went back to do some dinghy sailing!

 

[steve yates]

true, but nothing changes the fact that once cotton is damp, it stays damp for ages, and it's not a warm damp either, it chills you.

I'm a cotton fan, and generally only wear cotton and natural fibres in everyday life, and will only only have cotton bedclothes. I hate synthetic materials generally.

But having been a serious climber and mountaineer for a number of decades, all over the globe since the age of 14, I don't wear cotton as an active base layer in cold/wet conditions cos it's crap. Patagonia's capilene was my default material for years, though now I go for merino.

Bear in mind we are talking for pretty crap cold weather here, so when you see me in my cotton t shirt sailing past on my boat, which I usually wear, don't call me a hypocrite

 

[Neeves]

I agree with Steve, Merino for the base layer or 2 base layers. Merino does take time to dry, if you wash it (or it gets wet) so you might need spares. Fleece dries quickly, but I don't find as warm or as comfortable as merino. I prefer micro fleece, a number of, over merino and a heavy duty fleece outer, depends how cold it is. You need something for wind and particularly spray (don't assume you can stay out of the weather).

And don't forget your lower body will get just as cold - long johns are hardly glamorous (depend on your fetish') but worth their weight in gold. There are also a number of suppliers of fleece lined trousers (and merino long johns).

Fleece is as cheap as chips now, so cost is not an issue, sadly merino is not cheap - but worth paying good money.

Jonathan

 

[steve yates]

One other thing to bear in mind, yes merino will take time to dry if wet, but unlike cotton it is still warm, even when wet.

 

[thinwater]

One other thing to bear in mind, yes merino will take time to dry if wet, but unlike cotton it is still warm, even when wet.

... but not as warm as the same thickness of wet fleece, which also dries 3-6 times faster. I actually did some measure testing for magazine article this winter. Some years ago I switched from wool socks to fleece in all weights for both sailing AND climbing. The wool only comes out on dry days.

(BTW, my other hobby is ice climbing. In late winter I'm ready for summer, and in late summer, I'm ready for winter to come.)

If you really want to stay warm, get a drysuit. It's the only thing that will help you if you fall in.

 

[afterpegassus]

Of course, not related to insulation, but certainly to comfort, is the fact that a merino base layer can be worn for a week without stinking the focsle out, whereas man-made fibre will stink after a few hours.

 

[thinwater]

Of course, not related to insulation, but certainly to comfort, is the fact that a merino base layer can be worn for a week without stinking the focsle out, whereas man-made fibre will stink after a few hours.

THAT, is absolutely true. The compromise reached with my wife is that cotton tee shirts are mandatory, to be changed frequently! Someone is going to say they are cold when wet, but first, avoid getting them wet, second, change them, and third, if I can't accomplish 1 ans 2, I'm not going! There are exceptions, but I have found them limited with regard to boats. I even did a 6-hour drysuit test in 0C water with a cotton top base layer. I was dry and actually slightly warmer at the end.

 

[Neeves]

... but not as warm as the same thickness of wet fleece, which also dries 3-6 times faster. I actually did some measure testing for magazine article this winter. Some years ago I switched from wool socks to fleece in all weights for both sailing AND climbing. The wool only comes out on dry days.

(BTW, my other hobby is ice climbing. In late winter I'm ready for summer, and in late summer, I'm ready for winter to come.)

If you really want to stay warm, get a drysuit. It's the only thing that will help you if you fall in.

Ye, I want to be picky but:

I think this need more meaningful quantification

I have fleece that I call micro-fleece, they are very thin garments. I have other fleece that are, heavy duty, like an old fashioned duffel coat. I am sure if I search around I can find a heavy duty merino jersey and very thin merino undergarments, vests and long johns. I have fleece with elasticated cuffs, the cuffs not made from fleece, and some with cotton drawstrings (my merinos have narrowed cuffs knitted into design, so all merino).

I cannot believe that my thin merinos take 6 times as long to dry as my heavy duty fleece, with the elastic cuffs. Nor that my micro fleece take the same length to dry as my heavy duty fleece.

Knowing fleece takes shorter to dry is only meaningful if we compare their ability to keep one warm - and equate that warmth factor vs drying time.

No-one has mentioned alpaca, nor its relatives, yet.

Fleece seems to come in different weights - but only one method of manufacture. Merino wool garments can come in a whole range of designs and different stitching - and the stitching (knitting) itself imparts warmth over and above the fundamental characteristics of the fibre itself.

But if you buy fleece - make sure its all fleece, elasticated cuffs (and cotton pockets) take much longer to dry than the fleece itself.

I prefer a multitude of thin merino and thin fleece, which all dry more quickly than their thicker big brothers. If you are sailing 'long term' but maybe only for a few weeks - drying space then becomes an issue.

Socks?? we, personally, don't wear socks in Australia when sailing But we do wear sheepskin boots, think of Uggs, as deck shoes (or go bare footed).

Jonathan

 

[thinwater]

Ye, I want to be picky but:

I think this need more meaningful quantification

I have fleece that I call micro-fleece, they are very thin garments. I have other fleece that are, heavy duty, like an old fashioned duffel coat. I am sure if I search around I can find a heavy duty merino jersey and very thin merino undergarments, vests and long johns. I have fleece with elasticated cuffs, the cuffs not made from fleece, and some with cotton drawstrings (my merinos have narrowed cuffs knitted into design, so all merino).

I cannot believe that my thin merinos take 6 times as long to dry as my heavy duty fleece, with the elastic cuffs. Nor that my micro fleece take the same length to dry as my heavy duty fleece.

Knowing fleece takes shorter to dry is only meaningful if we compare their ability to keep one warm - and equate that warmth factor vs drying time.

No-one has mentioned alpaca, nor its relatives, yet.

Fleece seems to come in different weights - but only one method of manufacture. Merino wool garments can come in a whole range of designs and different stitching - and the stitching (knitting) itself imparts warmth over and above the fundamental characteristics of the fibre itself.

But if you buy fleece - make sure its all fleece, elasticated cuffs (and cotton pockets) take much longer to dry than the fleece itself.

I prefer a multitude of thin merino and thin fleece, which all dry more quickly than their thicker big brothers. If you are sailing 'long term' but maybe only for a few weeks - drying space then becomes an issue.

Socks?? we, personally, don't wear socks in Australia when sailing But we do wear sheepskin boots, think of Uggs, as deck shoes (or go bare footed).

Jonathan

I believe I compared on an equal basis. You will probably see it in Practical Sailor this fall. Obviously thick fleece cannot be compared with thick wool. I compared thick with thick, and thin with thin, including merino.

I was surprised how poorly wool blends did across the board. Almost as, but slow to dry. Yes, drying time depends on details, like cuffs, but that doesn't have much impact on drying time. Another variable is humidity; the drying time ratio is less in dry conditions and greater in damp conditions. I also exaggerated; looking at the data, it was more like 2:1 to 3:1 on an equal warmth basis.

I also have both types and have found that I have gradually moved away from wool. Less smelly for certain, but that's about it. I like being dry.