Pershing 5X surface drives

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Smudge8

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Hello all! Great forums here.
Does anyone know why Pershing no longer offers the 5X with the surface drive option? (Now only IPS) Early in its release, they offered twin CATs with top system surface drives? Can anyone comment on the differences between the 5X and 62 hulls with surface drives?
Thanks!
 
Surface drives are hard on the engines .This is because of the greater prop pitch = resistance when spinning up .That’s why you adjust the up / down trim …..to alleviate the stress .The stress on the crank and the cylinder EGT s - Exhaust Gas Temps .

So to mitigate for typical L of boat a builder would spec std larger engines .Eg instead of V8 15 L 800 hps shoe horn in a V10 or v12 circa 1000-1200 Hp in the same hull + Arnesons or what ever surface props .
Thats how they used to do in a old school way .

With this in mind ( enough of the history lesson ) fast fwd to today .
A new type of boater majoring on the hotel / accommodation / inside space side not so much the engineering .
To sell at a show the boat with the biggest mid cabin ( in this 50-65ft L ) sells .This straight away puts Pershings old school engineering at a serious sales disadvantage.

Enter IPS .
= immediately shove the engineering aft = bigger inside vol = more wow factor = a sale etc etc .Plus newbies entering at £2M can park it .

Thats why they dumped surface drive s with this L .
You should be able to pick up a nice used 50 or 62 on Arnesons …..but seek out the largest engine option or turned around avoid the smaller engines .The 50 also was available in straight shafts as well as Arnesons.

Is there any particular reason it has be surface driven ?
Whats your previous motor boat experience ?
 
Thank you, my preference for surface drives is for the performance and efficiency. My previous experience is with straight shaft boats in the 40ft range. I am willing to sacrifice the slow speed handling for the performance. (Learning curve for sure, can you comment?) The 5X with or without IPS has the same aft space for the engines etc. But on some listings I’ve seen an added seakeeper gyro. If what you say is true that the Cat 12 is a tight fit, then there would be very little room left with a gyro installed.
This would be my first step into the Pershing surface drive realm and I wouldn’t want it to be a wrong one.
Do you think the 5X is underpowered with the cat12 1000hp? And hence would have performance problems? Or problems maintaining the engines with the theorized little room.
This listing has much of the specs that I’m looking for:
2018 Pershing 5x Cruiser for sale - YachtWorld
 
Smudge8 said:
Thank you, my preference for surface drives is for the performance and efficiency. My previous experience is with straight shaft boats in the 40ft range. I am willing to sacrifice the slow speed handling for the performance. (Learning curve for sure, can you comment?) The 5X with or without IPS has the same aft space for the engines etc. But on some listings I’ve seen an added seakeeper gyro. If what you say is true that the Cat 12 is a tight fit, then there would be very little room left with a gyro installed.
This would be my first step into the Pershing surface drive realm and I wouldn’t want it to be a wrong one.
Do you think the 5X is underpowered with the cat12 1000hp? And hence would have performance problems? Or problems maintaining the engines with the theorized little room.
This listing has much of the specs that I’m looking for:
2018 Pershing 5x Cruiser for sale - YachtWorld
Click to expand...
The performance is a bit low .I would expect cruise mid forties and max near or over fifty .Max is really irrelevant .
Nobody runs all day at WOT .Due to seasonal fowling which surface drives are extremely sensitive I reckon with a few cruising stores weight etc you are looking at low thirties cruise not the claimed 38 knots .Take 5 off that = 33 .
You probably know there is a strong suggestion from the American sportfisher community professional skippers …in terms of longevity and lower bills for repairs it’s better if possible to run them no more than 80 % load .

So the real cruise figure you need ( test drive it ) is the speed / performance at 80 % load .
Hence my suggestion of go for bigger motors if possible.A quick Google informs me the 5 x around 2018 only came with the CAT C12 1000 Hp .Pity there wasn’t a MAN ( or other ) 1200 or 1400 Hp ?
Then swinging bigger props even with a big of seasonal fouling + cruising store added weight…..if you applied the 80 % rule then high thirties or low to mid forties should be achievable .As I said no one is gonna thrash them near WOT because the brochure said 40 + knots and cruise at 38 .
Those numbers are boat show fresh light boats on the first coat of 1 week old anti-foul .Real world knock 5 knots off .

Have a look at Magnums and Baia .

Then there’s this this is a 60 on Arnesons with 1200 Hp from 2005 .Today it would have 1400 +
Point is @ forty knots the wind ( ok the Pershing is a HT ) for those sat at the back or the front with the roof open buffets the passengers ,That’s ok for 1/2 an hour but on long passage ?
This will sit safely at 40 knots + all day with its 22L V 12 s


For me I would feel short changed hitting a wall in the 5 x surface drive boat below 35 knots .Ending up in the low thirties being sympathetic to the motors taking heed of the pro sport fisher skippers applying there 80 % rule .
Or very nervous pinning the sticks chasing the “ brochure “ speeds .Will the motors go bang ! ?

Although not mentioned this far CAT s have throw away charge air coolers every 7 years .Despite regular anode services.
You might want to do your own due diligence on that .The add you links does say recent overhaul…….so drill deeper with that specifically into the charge air cooler life , time left etc .A failed one destroys the engine from seawater ingestion .
Thats not an endearing selling point for that 5 x .You will get the replacement costs soon .
 
stelican said:
Good to see you back Portofino.
By the way have you been to Portofino.
My first visit was 1992
Click to expand...
Thx .
Yes we were there this summer .Anchored off .The entrance is at the tip of the beige Bimini of the down east lobster boat on my stb side
692235F0-388A-4B6E-B88B-0BBC7F3B9F94.jpeg
FC743BC6-3F47-4F8A-983D-2FD4144DB0CE.jpeg

But the REAL reason I am posting pics is this below .
D7B3A4FE-7262-4382-B4FB-D79A4930DDFE.jpeg
Passing our bow the silver boat, off the plane heading into Portofino.
It illustrates my Hp and Anrnesons point eloquently and my suspicion about the low ish Hp of the 5 x I have aired with the OP .
Scroll to the bottom. Take a long look at the engine options and the performance figure .Yup a 58 with 2000 Hp on Arnesons to give proper performance.It’s how it should imho be done .

58'HT

The factory is in Genoa + dealer is about 2 miles away from where iam anchored . Its a great boat geek spot to anchor .
 
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Barge in .Send wife to capitanerie to flutter eyelashes.:).
Initially tell them the guys ( uni kids on summer jobs ) in the ribs the meet n greeters that you are dropping off / picking up .

To be fair it’s better in some respects to anchor off and tender in .You can get close to the shore as per my pics ^^^ .
Alternatively missing out the nearby pricy other marinas like Rapillo and St Margarita , just shoot across the bay S to Chiavari .
Very pleasant in that Bay .Normal none tourisme place .
9999F738-98F6-405B-BD43-3AB96A3C1F8D.jpeg
Visitors pontoon first L by the entrance . There’s a beach too .This place answers the phone / emails send marina men to help with lines and plug you in to shore power ,Nice clean laundry etc etc.
 
Smudge8 said:
Hello all! Great forums here.
Does anyone know why Pershing no longer offers the 5X with the surface drive option? (Now only IPS) Early in its release, they offered twin CATs with top system surface drives? Can anyone comment on the differences between the 5X and 62 hulls with surface drives?
Thanks!
Click to expand...

Are you sure about this?
According to the website and up until end Summer it was still offered with surface drives.
 
Chris H said:
Only the first few had surface drives, according to Ventura.

30 Knot cruise is plenty fast enough, my old knacker with little engines copes very well.
Click to expand...

It was an option with the surface drives version being an option.
Hull #1 was actually IPS. Off my mind I think she was the only FG IPS offer till 2020.
With Wally in the group now there is the Tender48, Power58, and Why200 and Why150 all offered with IPS pod drives.
 
Portofino said:
Yup a 58 with 2000 Hp on Arnesons to give proper performance.It’s how it should imho be done .

58'HT

The factory is in Genoa + dealer is about 2 miles away from where iam anchored . Its a great boat geek spot to anchor .
Click to expand...

We see them go out for trials, come back into the hoist, up out and prop change, back in the water then out for another blast. Rinse and repeat!

I've not heard masses of good reports about topsystem, the guys that service our arnesons are also agents for topsystem and they weren't entirely complimentary...
 
PowerYachtBlog said:
Are you sure about this?
According to the website and up until end Summer it was still offered with surface drives.
Click to expand...
The broker (Allied Marine) I chatted with told me that they no longer offer surface drives for the 5X . Perhaps he was trying to steer me away from them? However, I agree with you, on the Pershing website it clearly states that it is an option. A typo perhaps?
Regarding Top System, did Pershing switch from Arneson for cost reasons? Performance? Quality?
 
The reliability of TS and Arnesons ASD is pretty similar to what I know. I have seen both units up close.

I am sure being in Italy the Top System will come cheaper for Pershing. The first boats to come with Top Systems was the Italcraft Drago 70 and was followed by the Rizzardi 45 Incredile.
Not surprising being that TS come from that area to the South of Rome.

btw if surface drives is your thing you can also have a look at the Rizzardi InFive.
I have sold and helmed a couple of RIzzardi 45 Incredible's (the InFive is based on the 45 released in 2004) and it is a nice machine.

I think this guy was trying to sell them in the USA Juan Morillo juanmorillo@unitedyacht.com www.uysmiami.com
 
Back .
The further back the CoG from the CoL = tab will be busy .

83FD3DAC-D656-4EDB-B4A6-C8E726486C71.jpeg
To run tab free ie at zero you need the CoG coinciding with the CoL .
This often means splitting the boat in 1/2 with the machinery space in the middle , ie the helm, stood on an engine not what appears to be the foot of a bed in this case .

Big rooster tail = drives trimmed out - up 1/2 out the props so very little stern lift , or minimal compared if they were deeper .
 
MapisM said:
How come she demands trim tabs half down @33 kts? :unsure:
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There was an annoying swell in the first part of that delivery hence I kept tabs a bit down losing a couple knots and going at 33 knots.
Ten miles off Sicily (about half of the trip) I made them zero or near to it and she was doing 36 knots with same 1900 rpm.
Three hours for 100 nm is not bad, and about 5.7 liters per nm consumption is better to IPS in similar size.
 
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