Perkins Prima ... breakers yard spares?

[Countess of Camaret]

Part way through engine rebuild, and despite awful state of exterior, corrosion from poorly maintained raw water pump, seals fail, spin salt spray everywhere, the internals very good, slight wear, water jacket in head no corrosion?

However, starter motor, high pressure injector pipes, wiring, relays, in very sad way. Plus the crank pulley been chipped on flange, chunk missing!

I've tried local car breaker yard, but seems days of sherpa vans, montego cars, that shared many parts, are long gone, history.

So, wondering, what happens to old marine engines, when upgraded?
Are there marine equivalents to breakers yard ... especially given the price of Volvo parts, for their rebranded Prima version, MD22 engine?

Out of interest, thorough rebuild, head, hone bores, polish crank, new rings, shells, oil pump rebuild, water pump, all seals, injector nozzles, etc etc ... coming about £900 parts, and £450 machining, building up head, bottom end, etc. I've plenty experience, spanner work, that keeps labour costs minimal, and economic to avoid replacement.

V impressive old engine, caught in time, no great wear after about 6000hrs, 34 years, just all the ancillary stuff, and bores glazed, though no wear ridge, honing marks visible.

Hope to sustain it a few decades more, and that little gem, PRM Delta gearbox.

Thanks for any thoughts, anyway.

Phil

 

[Tranona]

parts4engines.com marineenterprisesltd.co.uk westendmarinebatleyltd.co.uk

You probably know the first one and they may well have many of the parts you want such as the starter motor, crank pulley etc.. The second 2 are probably the biggest marine engine sellers and breakers.

As you have discovered the actual engine part of a marine engine is pretty bullet proof - they die because of the ancillaries and it is these that are either impossible or expensive to obtain making refurbishing impractical or uneconomic. It may be well worth buying another complete engine - they are being junked for the very reasons stated in the first sentence! and make one engine out of 2. However you end up with an engine that has not been made for over 20 years and the problem for parts other than regular maintenance will only get worse. Just been through the same process with a similar vintage Perkins M3 and decided not worth throwing money at it to end up with a 20 year old obsolete design engine.

You could try and Stu Davis who posts here under the name Beneteau381. He is the engine man in PBO and knows everything there is to know about these engines. Hopefully he will pick up this thread as you can't use the message function until you have more posts.

 

[jdc]

You can get a surprising amount of stuff made to order. Try Darwen diesels for instance for fuel system and injector spares.

 

[Bobc]

I've got an injector pump timing kit for that engine if it's of any use to you. I broke one of these a few years ago, and all the bits got snapped up.

 

[Countess of Camaret]

parts4engines.com marineenterprisesltd.co.uk westendmarinebatleyltd.co.uk

You probably know the first one and they may well have many of the parts you want such as the starter motor, crank pulley etc.. The second 2 are probably the biggest marine engine sellers and breakers.

As you have discovered the actual engine part of a marine engine is pretty bullet proof - they die because of the ancillaries and it is these that are either impossible or expensive to obtain making refurbishing impractical or uneconomic. It may be well worth buying another complete engine - they are being junked for the very reasons stated in the first sentence! and make one engine out of 2. However you end up with an engine that has not been made for over 20 years and the problem for parts other than regular maintenance will only get worse. Just been through the same process with a similar vintage Perkins M3 and decided not worth throwing money at it to end up with a 20 year old obsolete design engine.

You could try and Stu Davis who posts here under the name Beneteau381. He is the engine man in PBO and knows everything there is to know about these engines. Hopefully he will pick up this thread as you can't use the message function until you have more posts.

Thank you for all this, Tranona!

Correct, yes parts4engines have been crucial in sourcing the regular components subject to 'wear replacement'.

The other 2 I will certainly pursue.

Skipper Stu I'm v familiar with, and his wealth of experience with the various applications of this engine. I used to be a regular ybw forumite, but after 5 years off, making new life afloat, residency in Brittany, I couldn't find a way to login as Sealskipper, as my old btintrrnet email account closed, no longer reside in UK. So, I appear as newcomer here!

You know the old adage, 'don't go fixing, if it ain't broke' ... well I totally disagree!
More like best time to hoe weeds, is when you can't see them ... as this engine was sweet, instant start, smooth, though burning oil, a blue haze always astern, and since I'd only owned her 5 yrs, was especially concerned about whether coolant, inhibitor/ antifreeze had been kept fresh, just how much killer corrosion in head.

I have no worries investing in this engine, as in super clean state internally, and only just starting to see wear on big end shells. Never had spanner on cam cover, head, block, etc ... original paint.
It's far better than expected, these are very well engineered, I'd say, though not user friendly for say, checking valve clearances, but then, they don't seem to need checking much anyway. But ... raw water pump, relays, too many wires as 2- wire concept, really the main threats.
Of course it's v unusual to need to change the crank pulley ... I think this is legacy from whoever did timing belt, chipped bit off the flange. I've smoothed off with Dremel as a temp bodge to save belt getting savaged.

I've sailed back to Ipswich from home port, Camaret, Finistere, to do rebuild, as SO much easier to organise such tasks here, access to machine shops, getting parts and tools ... and mostly speak the language, Suffolk Boy! ;-)
So, I thought it ideal time to try properly resolve these snags, whilst here, much much simpler than from outside UK.

Should have seen me getting crankshaft, sump, and stuff to Colchester, machine shop, well wrapped, strapped, to folding bike (pack-mule), via train. Worked a treat! The block, head, went by brother's van, though, pity forgot the other bits!?

Yep, this'll have plenty life in it, I think, and new mounts, anything that can wear... and PRM gearbox also showing no wear on clutch plates, def worth strip check, whist got chance. Just replace oil seals, prudent.

It's good to be back, on YBW, unrivalled sailing resource and community.

 

[Countess of Camaret]

I've got an injector pump timing kit for that engine if it's of any use to you. I broke one of these a few years ago, and all the bits got snapped up.

No, really? I've just been researching, dial indicator with Bosch adaptor, extension pieces ... yes, one of those? I struggled to be sure which kit would have correct extenders, so held fire on ordering.

I'd certainly be interested.
I gather that I'm unable to DM you, as I've only just re-joined ybw, after some years away.... on probation sort of!

Wonder how we do this, correct protocol??

 

[Delfini]

... Ive just had my 25 year old Perkins Prima completely stripped and re-built and although it wasnt cheap Ive got the original engine back from the brink and it uses the same mountings, gearbox instruments and engine control gear - the Perkins block is completely new including all of the internal bits and the marinised (Volvo Penta MD22) bits were refurbished along with the cylinder head.

Buy genuine Perkins short blocks | Perkins

 

[Boater Sam]

Crank pulley, weld up the chip and file.
Injector pipes, any good diesel shop will make them.
Starter motor, Lancashire Rotating Electrics Ltd are the go to company for motors and alternators, overhauls and new.

 

[Jim@sea]

Dont forget that Perkins were the engines which went into Massey Ferguson Tractors. There are hundreds of Massey Ferguson Dealers in the uk with spares which go back to the early 1950's

 

[Countess of Camaret]

Crank pulley, weld up the chip and file.
Injector pipes, any good diesel shop will make them.
Starter motor, Lancashire Rotating Electrics Ltd are the go to company for motors and alternators, overhauls and new.

Yes, I may resort to TIG welding the pulley, with great caution, as it's a composite, rubber, vibration damper type. Managing the heat is crucial, no preheat, postheat. It's balance of risks, hey.

I had starter motor checked over by great local auto- electrics firm here, all good, but hell, the aluminium cast parts deep craters of corrosion, raw water pump crap, after cleaning back crud. They're v pricey to replace, as it's insulated chassis, 2 wire... over £300!

Took your advice, with HP injection pipe ... but crikey, £70, for one, flares formed, bend formed to pattern, about a foot long. Still, its sorted, and was a likely imminent failure.
Hitting them off, wack a mole style!?

 

[Countess of Camaret]

... Ive just had my 25 year old Perkins Prima completely stripped and re-built and although it wasnt cheap Ive got the original engine back from the brink and it uses the same mountings, gearbox instruments and engine control gear - the Perkins block is completely new including all of the internal bits and the marinised (Volvo Penta MD22) bits were refurbished along with the cylinder head.

Buy genuine Perkins short blocks | Perkins

Yes agreed, totally, like for like ... and I'm lucky that block, crank rods, pistons, absolutely fine, just need shells, rings, hone, polish journals, the top face perfect. A short engine not any benefit to me, as v low wear, no sludge very clean. Just been pussy footed, not loaded up, bore glazed, and enough hours to call for fresh big end shells but do them all, inexpensive.

It's all the bolted-on bits, electrics, plumbing, pumps, engine mounts, that seem to take time, money, sourcing, to bring up to full rebuild status ... but that sea water, that's been such a pain, corrosion, out of sight, rear of block, head, gearbox, etc.

I looked at the perkins short engine link, curiosity, but don't recognise their engine codes. Prima is 500 series, I'm pretty sure. What price are they giving, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Tranona]

Dont forget that Perkins were the engines which went into Massey Ferguson Tractors. There are hundreds of Massey Ferguson Dealers in the uk with spares which go back to the early 1950's

No they were not. They were made for British Leyland for use in the Montego and Sherpa van, plus a short run of taxis. Most marinisations were done by Volvo as the MD22 or Perkins themselves as the prima which the OP has. Nothing to do with the Perkins engines that MF used.

 

[emmalina]

It was the 6354 that went into tractors. I know I have one LOL

 

[Boater Sam]

Yes, I may resort to TIG welding the pulley, with great caution, as it's a composite, rubber, vibration damper type. Managing the heat is crucial, no preheat, postheat. It's balance of risks, hey.

I used to stick weld brackets back onto car rear opening window frames, by putting the frame and glass mostly under water.
Could you do the same with the pulley?