perkins 4-108 frozen

[lost in Hawaii]

Yikes I am in a pickle . Never had a diesel engine before and this one refuses to budge at all does anyone have experience with this problem ?
I have tried to turn the crank with a breaker bar but may damage something if I try any harder, the gearbox, pump and alternator spin freely

 

[DownWest]

Bit more info: Has it been sitting for a long time? Flooded?
Might try removing the injectors and putting some releasing oil in the bores, then wait for a while and try again with the bar. Otherwise, head off for a look.

 

[duncan99210]

A possible cause of a “frozen“ engine is water in the cylinders. Check by removing injectors and seeing if that frees things up. If you do have water in the cylinders, then if it’s been there for any length of time, you may well need to remove the head to check for any damage caused by the water. However, if you find that it was down to water, if you replace the injectors and the engine runs ok, you may not need to do anything more.

 

[johnlilley]

Yikes I am in a pickle . Never had a diesel engine before and this one refuses to budge at all does anyone have experience with this problem ?
I have tried to turn the crank with a breaker bar but may damage something if I try any harder, the gearbox, pump and alternator spin freely

Safest way to turn the engine over without stripping the front pulley crankshaft thread is to remove the starter motor and use a pinch bar levering one of the flywhhel starter ring teeth backwards and forwards a very small increment each time with oil in the injector holes. Eventually it is likely to free off provided a piston has not 'welded' itself to the bore due to overheating previously.

 

[rogerthebodger]

I had a perking 4/236 freeze up due to water in the sump and I freed it by draining the sump and refill with new oil . Remove the injectors and port diesel oil into the cylinders, leave it for a day or 2 then with a very long bar managed to free the engine so I could turn it over with the starter motor.

IMHO its very unlikly you will break anything in the engine by turning it over by hand even with a breaker bar and extensions

 

[savageseadog]

Easier to remove glow plugs rather than injectors if the engine has them.

 

[Beneteau381]

I had a perking 4/236 freeze up due to water in the sump and I freed it by draining the sump and refill with new oil . Remove the injectors and port diesel oil into the cylinders, leave it for a day or 2 then with a very long bar managed to free the engine so I could turn it over with the starter motor.

IMHO its very unlikly you will break anything in the engine by turning it over by hand even with a breaker bar and extensions

Water in the sump alone wont make an engine "freeze" It needs to be there for a long time, have been circulated and left for a considerable amount of time. Just draining it and filling with fresh oil wont "unfreeze" it. Putting lube in to the cylinders through injector ports will.
John lilley gave the correct advice

 

[rogerthebodger]

Water in the sump alone wont make an engine "freeze" It needs to be there for a long time,

Won't it did you inspect my engine and do you know how fill the sump was. I know it reached the underside of the pistons so could start to corrode the bore on the underside of the piston.

Just draining it and filling with fresh oil wont "unfreeze" it.

Of cause it won't on its own unfreeze and engine but it will contribute to enduring proper fresh lubricant once you bet the engine turning and when the starter motor can be used ensure the circulation of fresh oil

Putting lube in to the cylinders through injector ports will.
John lilley gave the correct advice

As I also said in the second part of my post, so did that made my advice incorrect or are you just trying to discredit me. All the proves is your negativity.

 

[Beneteau381]

I had a perking 4/236 freeze up due to water in the sump and I freed it by draining the sump and refill with new oil . Remove the injectors and port diesel oil into the cylinders, leave it for a day or 2 then with a very long bar managed to free the engine so I could turn it over with the starter motor.

IMHO its very unlikly you will break anything in the engine by turning it over by hand even with a breaker bar and extensions

There are lots of Video Channels on Youtube of good old boys restoring tractors etc. I watched one last night, he had a breaker bar and extension on a front pulley bolt of a seized engine, one of the places suitable for giving it rice on a diesel engine. It started to tighten the bolt, he did the sensible thing. He stopped trying to force it, the bolt would have broken.

 

[Beneteau381]

Yikes I am in a pickle . Never had a diesel engine before and this one refuses to budge at all does anyone have experience with this problem ?
I have tried to turn the crank with a breaker bar but may damage something if I try any harder, the gearbox, pump and alternator spin freely

Take the injectors or glow plugs out and put a good freeing oil in the cylinders, I find GT85 very very good. Leave for a day, then start putting some pressure on the breaker bar, try both ways, make sure you dont put enough pressure on that it starts to tighten or untighten the bolt. If it doesnt move then go to the JohnLilly advice. The issue is, if it needs any more pressure to move the engine then you have serious problems and it is head off time.

 

[rogerthebodger]

There are lots of Video Channels on Youtube of good old boys restoring tractors etc. I watched one last night, he had a breaker bar and extension on a front pulley bolt of a seized engine, one of the places suitable for giving it rice on a diesel engine. It started to tighten the bolt, he did the sensible thing. He stopped trying to force it, the bolt would have broken.

When I put a breaker bar and extension tube an my perkins the bolt started to tighten but a little more and it started to turn.

This is where skill comes in.

If mine did break I would be surprised as I have some idea of the strength and ig it did break it's not a disaster as I would jut extract the bolt and replace with a new one.

Again you are assuming that in the case you quoted "the bolt would have broken" I don't make those assumptions . Yes the bolt could have broken but equally it might have mot broken and started to turn the engine.

I always deal in facts not maybe's

 

[savageseadog]

If possible fill the cooling system with hot water, very hot water, as well.

 

[DownWest]

Easier to remove glow plugs rather than injectors if the engine has them.

4-108 has an intake flaming fuel starter, not glow plugs.

 

[Jim@sea]

Perhaps 1964 at our garage it was so cold a the engine in a customers Bedford Van froze up, i.e the engine oil froze. In those days it was common to have a little paraffin heater which you pushed under a sump and it would keep the sump warm which thawed it out. In the same week a land rover which had not been run for over a week froze and the block had a crack in it. Fortunately we were able to have it welded. When it gets to below -10 many antifreezes dont work.

 

[Slowboat35]

A bit more info would help us diagnose the potential problem.

1)Is the the boat in the water?

2)What sort of boat is it? What construction?

3)Was it left with the coolant intake seacock closed?

4)When did it last run/turn over?

5)Are the cylinders above, on or below the boat's waterline?

6)Where are you? How much and for how long has the temp been below freezing, if at all?

7)What are the exact symptoms when you try to turn it over? Is there any, even tiny rocking movement of the crank possible or is it locked rigid?

We'll have a better idea with those points answered.

 

[Gary Fox]

Take the injectors out and squirt some penetrating oil into the cylinders. Heat up the engine until it is much too hot to touch, over 100 degrees C. By any and every means available. It will move. heat is your friend.
If possible, use 'plus gas'. IE oxygen, plus gas. But boiling water pumped through the cooling system, for a while, is a good start.
+1 to levering the ring gear.

 

[Slowboat35]

Take the injectors out and squirt some penetrating oil into the cylinders. Heat up the engine until it is much too hot to touch, over 100 degrees C. By any and every means available. It will move. heat is your friend.
If possible, use 'plus gas'. IE oxygen, plus gas. But boiling water pumped through the cooling system, for a while, is a good start.
+1 to levering the ring gear.

That's all very well, but it assumes without evidence that the siezure is corrosion of piston rings to bore or main/big-end berings siezed by rust (which it might well be) but we have no reason to suspect this more than any other cause. In any case if that were the cause your 'remedy' would likely cause massive damage inside the engine, so is it a good idea to sugest it? That might have to be part of the remedy if all else fails but please don't start with a butcher's job before thinking the problem through first.

There are several other reasons why an engine might be siezed, these range from water in the cylinders, ice filling the sump to something mechanocal broken and jamming the engine elsewhere (loose part dropped into the timing gears and jamming it for isntance), even an ice- solid fresh-water pump would produce these symptoms!

Please, let's not jump to wild conclusions before knowing ALL the symptoms and situation and thinking them through.

Problems are so often far simpler than they appear at first glance, although it may work the bull-at-a-gate technique is seldom the best in the long run.

 

[john_q]

It is also possible that the gearbox is seized not the engine

 

[lost in Hawaii]

Yikes I am in a pickle . Never had a diesel engine before and this one refuses to budge at all does anyone have experience with this problem ?
I have tried to turn the crank with a breaker bar but may damage something if I try any harder, the gearbox, pump and alternator spin freely

A bit more info would help us diagnose the potential problem.

1)Is the the boat in the water?

2)What sort of boat is it? What construction?

3)Was it left with the coolant intake seacock closed?

4)When did it last run/turn over?

5)Are the cylinders above, on or below the boat's waterline?

6)Where are you? How much and for how long has the temp been below freezing, if at all?

7)What are the exact symptoms when you try to turn it over? Is there any, even tiny rocking movement of the crank possible or is it locked rigid?

We'll have a better idea with those points answered.

1 .The boat is in the water

2 . Its a Bruce Roberts steel hull 1984

3. the sea cock closed

4. Has not been turned over for two years

5. the entire engine is about 4 inches below water level

6. In Hawaii ave temp 82 year round , no freezing here.

7. No movement at all

Thank you so much for the help

 

[lost in Hawaii]

Won't it did you inspect my engine and do you know how fill the sump was. I know it reached the underside of the pistons so could start to corrode the bore on the underside of the piston.



Of cause it won't on its own unfreeze and engine but it will contribute to enduring proper fresh lubricant once you bet the engine turning and when the starter motor can be used ensure the circulation of fresh oil




As I also said in the second part of my post, so did that made my advice incorrect or are you just trying to discredit me. All the proves is your negativity.

EASY NOW FELLAS EVERY SITUATIONS DIFFERENT

It is also possible that the gearbox is seized not the engine

It is also possible that the gearbox is seized not the engine

IN NEUTRAL THE GEAR BOX AND SHAFT SPIN FREELY