PDAs for navigation

[dralex]

I'm thinking of getting a PDA for work, but wonder if it is worth getting one with navigation facilities. DOes anybody have experience of these and are they really just a gimic when it comes to maritime navigation.

<hr width=100% size=1>Life's too short- do it now./forums/images/icons/wink.gif

 

[IanPoole2]

Guy here uses a iPAQ with GPS jacket and raves about it. Personally I prefer a Laptop plotter linked to a GPS - but the power consumption is a killer.



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[Guest]

GPS Navigator group has many that use them ..... join and ask ...

url at bottom ....

<hr width=100% size=1>Cheers Nigel http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gps-navigator/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/searider/

 

[Ships_Cat]

I have difficulty imagining how anyone can seriously navigate on a little 5 inch plotter screen let alone on a PDA with no mouse or roller ball for chartwork tools - I find a 15 inch screen tight enough.

However, what I do though is make up JPEG's of chart sections of unfamiliar anchorages, passes, harbours, etc and just use them with an ordinary image viewer on a PDA in the cockpit (no GPS) reminding me where any dangers, etc are - just in the same way as one might bring a paper chart out into the cockpit. This is easy to do here (NZ) as we are in the fortunate position in that TIFFs of all our charts are made available free, but otherwise one can scan small sections of charts or cut and paste from an ECS.

Assuming you are referring to sailboats, as small plotters, etc are fine in a fast powerboat (again in my opinion) for giving a realtime indication of position, rather than for actual navigating. Have been told that with voice output they work well in cars, but have never tried a PDA for street nav.

John

<hr width=100% size=1>I am the cat but I am only 6.

 

[JonBrooks]

There is a number of us here that use PDA's for in car Nav.
Some use TOM TOM, I have the Navman Bluetooth kit.
TOM TOM have just released a version for use on the SMART type mobile phones.
Well all except my Sony P900!

It is a great aid if your going somewhere for the first time.
The voice prompts are a great tool.
Means you don't have to look at the screen all the time.
This gets over the small screen issue.

When it comes to boat use you can't beat a large easy to ready screen with tactile buttons.

All IMHO

Regards

<hr width=100% size=1>Jon Brooks
Marine Dealer Manager
Icom UK Ltd.
01227 741741

 

[Gordonmc]

I use an iPaq for work and bought a CE card GPS which also works on the laptop via a PMCIA adaptor. For software I bought the pocket Oziexplorer and use self-scanned charts. Total cost of the plotting/GPS add-ons was under a ton.
It will never take the place of paper charts but as a cockpit reference it is good, even if only to answer the incessent questions from the crew
about location and progress. My iPaq is an old one, for some reson the newer ones and Palms sre getting smaller, with correspondingly small screens.
On the whole, a handy toy, but not worth spending serious money on. Colin Jones did a handy write-up in PBO fairly recently.

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[dralex]

Thanks for the replies- I think I'll just get the PDA for work ( and car navigation) and continue to lust after a Raymarine C70 to go with my radar.

<hr width=100% size=1>Life's too short- do it now./forums/images/icons/wink.gif

 

[Trevethan]

I have a Garmin Ique 3600. Very pleased with it -- great in car navigator. (Except the voice instructions get confused by roundabouts) -- I use it with the car mount charger speaker system they sell.

On the boat makes a great back up to the GPS. I haven't forked out for teh bluecharts yet, but have heard it works quite well.

The major caveat, as with all PDAs is that they don't like water. We have a pilothouse so no much of a problem, but would get an aquapac for it for use in the dinghy etc.

The Ique uses Palm OS. There are lots of great bits of freeware/shareware out there, including stuff that can let you create edit etc MS office docs, powerpoint and PDF files. Plenty of games. masses of location type tools.

Palm OS is a more streamlined system, programs are smaller and things tend to run more quickly, so a direct comparison of spec isn't always helpful if you look at Pocket PC devices.

There also a number of bluetooth gps antennas that you could use with a PDA or a suitable laptop,but you would need to sort out cartography or them -- I quite like Garmin's system and their support is excellent.

All the best,

Nick



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[Talbot]

Navigation on the 5" screen is easy. Planning is difficult. I have a laptop for the planning and a plotter for the doing! It also means that I can have myplotter near my helm.

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[dralex]

Is the Palm OS the best in terms of being user friendly and quick. I know very little about PDAs, but mine will be used mainly for accounts, bookings, invoicing and keeping VAT records. It would be nice to play the odd game while travelling and it also needs to link easily with my Dell Desktop running WindowsXP. SOrry this is getting a bit non maritime, but the advice is really useful.

Alex

<hr width=100% size=1>Life's too short- do it now./forums/images/icons/wink.gif

 

[Ships_Cat]

Errr, well it might depend very much on what you regard as "navigation" - both from the point of view of chart tools available and the point of view of doing things on a miniscule display if you actually had them. Not for serious use.

Appreciated the comments about PDA/GPS car use from Jon and all, and stacks up completely with what others have told me - am sorely tempted, but only problem is it is pretty hard to get seriously lost on the road here in lil old NZ so I haven't thought up a good enough excuse yet /forums/images/icons/crazy.gif.

John

<hr width=100% size=1>I am the cat but I am only 6.

 

[tcm]

Re: 5\" screen

I agree. Came all round from the med on a garmin 175 cos i had al the charts (about 1500 quid) so dint really wann buy them again for just one season.
The zoom function goes down to show as much as 1/4 mile on the screen, for setting it up. But normal use wd be with route set up, and in "highway" mode to show if on/off track plus route info and data like speed etc. Bigger screen is better, but only a teeny bit better. Of course still need charts, no question.



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[tcm]

Re: serious use.

i admit we had a laugh hence not too serious - but either the thing works, or it doesn't. We did almost 1200 miles in 60 hours (fairly serious) from Gibraltar to uk using primarily a device with 5" screen. The chartplotteryiness (?) is actuiall the non-serious bit - cos it's only near land that the pic is sort of interesting. Once set up with wpts that are correct - the map pic with little dot is superfluous really, and having it in colour is also a bit irrelevant imho. With enuf batteries, i wd really have no prob using a £100 quid gps for the same trip. ok, i wd have a spare one as well. Out at sea, main thing with engine is look at engine temps, look at engine temps, look at radar, engine temps etc etc. On sailyboat main preoccupation is er keeping the converstaion going a bit, or making tea, or well, not glued to gps anyway, surely? we all drive cars with 5 inch dials or less, and databox even on big screen is quite small - plus a nice big pic wiv dot of self on it which we can't actually do anything about really - it's a thing to show swmbo just how nearly there we are, no?

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[Ships_Cat]

Re: 5\" screen

Ah, but you are in a fasty type MoBo TCM and further back I said that they are useful in that situation purely to see what you might be about to run into - not telling most MoBo's anything if I say nav at speed is hard compared to saily type dawdles. Also, sailing a sailboat between waypoints is pretty inefficient.

We put plotters (a bit bigger than 5 inch though), into fast commercial MoBo's running on harbour routes when not worth putting an ECS in, for that very purpose, like "Oh my goodness I looked down at my sandwich and just about spilt my coffee and then looked up and wondered where the hell I had gotten to at 40 knots in the last 45 seconds". A quick glance at even a 5 inch screen is then helpful. But all "proper" navigation is done on paper charts or a PC brought on board with software with proper chartwork tools if going into "virgin" territory so to speak.

Anyway having a big TV at the helm for movies takes all need for navigation away I think /forums/images/icons/smile.gif.

John

<hr width=100% size=1>I am the cat but I am only 6.

 

[tcm]

Re: 5\" screen

hm ok.

I am having difficulty having a serious flippin converstaion with a self-annointed ships cat, i must say....

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[bigmart]

Despite all the criticism of the screen size, it seems a little churlish to dismiss the PDA on dimensions when half of the so called Chart plotters you can buy are about the same size.

Martin

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[Talbot]

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

Errr, well it might depend very much on what you regard as "navigation" - both from the point of view of chart tools available and the point of view of doing things on a miniscule display if you actually had them. Not for serious use.


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The major part of navigation should be completed during the planning, and IMHO needs to be done on a large screen (hence 17" widescreen) preferably also transferred onto a paperchart for reference. The waypoints then transferred onto the plotter. The data even on screens smaller than my Navman 5500, provide adequate facilities and scale to display them for the minute to minute navigation (i.e. confirmation that having planned the sail, you are now sailing the plan) including the ability to check depth displayed against that shown on the echosounder (a good way to keep an eye on what GPS is telling you). This system provides the best economy of power used plus immediate data at the helm. It certainly works for me, and I spent many years doing this for a living as well as having owned my boat for the last 17 years! (so there is a danger I might know something about navigation)

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[ubuysa]

I realise that you're probably talking about GPS nav tools here, but if you also fancy getter your sextant out (only where it's legal to do so of course /forums/images/icons/wink.gif) there is a really great programme for the Palm OS called <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.mobilegeographics.com> CelestNav</A> which does all the calculations for you. It even has a built in almanac and celestial object database (good until 2031 apparently). All you have to do is set the time on your PDA (or know it's error) and enter your sextant reading. CelestNav will calculate and display your line of position or, if you've entered data for more than one object (or the same object with a run in between) it will display your position. It's $49.95 (US dollars) to buy, but I think it's well worth it.

BTW. If you're a Pocket PC user they recommend <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.nomadelectronics.com/> Pocket Stars</A> which apparently will do the same calculations (I've not used it though).

Tony C.

<hr width=100% size=1>Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.......

 

[Sea Devil]

Trouble is with my sextant I could never do better than around 10 miles accuracy.... prooved that when I first got a gps - Sextant now in its box in a locker.

Agree with talbot - planning is the thing not working it up as you go - 'IMHO' GPS is for Navigation all Chart plotters/laptops linked to gps are for Pilotage.

At sea I note in the log my position every 4 hours -

Coming into a strange port at night I am working up the position constantly..

<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.michaelbriant.com/sailing

 

[Ships_Cat]

So navigation on board is just watching a little circle walk across a llttle screen - I learn something new every day /forums/images/icons/smile.gif.

John

<hr width=100% size=1>I am the cat but I am only 6.