Passing trawlers

[PabloPicasso]

How close astern of a fishing vessel trawling nets could a deep fin keeled yacht pass? Is it just behind where his lines enter he water, or several hundred yards or how far? The almanacs and RYA books don't seem to mention this and it seemed important to me when night sailing through the fishing fleet recently. I hailed one of the vessels but got no response. Can anyone enlighten me?

 

[cryan]

Depends on size of trawler and what he's towing. A bottom trawl will go down at a sharper angle than a pelagic trawl. I would think you would want to be at least a few hundred yards astern of him. If you did snag his gear it could turn nasty very quickly. Where as a big ship might pull over the trawler the opposite would be true of a light weight yacht.

 

[VicS]

By day estimate the angle between the wires and the water surface. Absolute minimum would then be a tad more than your draft divided by the tangent of the angle.

If you went anything like as close as that though you'd be mad.

Tempted to suggest half a mile!

 

[johnalison]

I'll go with half a mile too. At least several cables for a small one.

 

[alant]

How close astern of a fishing vessel trawling nets could a deep fin keeled yacht pass? Is it just behind where his lines enter he water, or several hundred yards or how far? The almanacs and RYA books don't seem to mention this and it seemed important to me when night sailing through the fishing fleet recently. I hailed one of the vessels but got no response. Can anyone enlighten me?

I always keep well clear of any fishing boats, particularly offshore. Treat 'em like a rabid dog, which can turn on you without warning.

 

[Frayed Knot]

I always keep well clear of any fishing boats, particularly offshore. Treat 'em like a rabid dog, which can turn on you without warning.

+1 especially if it's Dutch!

 

[Ariadne]

I always keep well clear of any fishing boats, particularly offshore. Treat 'em like a rabid dog, which can turn on you without warning.

Brilliant, the OP asks a reasonable and sensible question and you tell him to treat fishermen like rabid dogs!!!

If it was me I'd stay at least 200m away, that way you'll be clear of his gear. If he's hauling his gear, you'll see the ****e hawks hovering and he'll be going very slow, just enough speed to keep the net open. Then, again you'll want to be 200m astern of his gear.

Trawlers normally go in straight lines at around 4 kts, sharp turns will X the doors, close the net and give hours of work sorting it out. They'll do odd thing if the gear is snagged.
Gill netters and potters on the other hand do odd things all the time; but generally shoot gear at high speed according to the terrain. If they are hauling then I'd stay well clear as the nets can quite often be floating up to 1000m behind/from the side of the boat, give him a wide berth!!!!

 

[PabloPicasso]

So general opinion is 1000meters to a mile astern then, wether they're rabid dogs or not? Any fisherman reading this please ignore the insults, I'm just asking so we yachties can pass behind you at a safe distance!

 

[yachtorion]

Depends what they're doing. If they're drift netting it may not be a simple as keep well astern. The best way to keep well out of their way is something I would love to have a better understanding of as well.

 

[GHA]

+1 especially if it's Dutch!

Or Spanish or Portuguese- drift about doing nothing for ages then full throttle straight towards you.
Not so much trawlers though, the bigger ones in Biscay seem to be mostly transmitting ais now so at least you can tell if their nets are down.

 

[Ariadne]

How much understanding do you want? Apart from me there are few ex/current commercial fishermen on here, I'm sure if you want a sensible discussion you can have one - if posters leave out the rabid dogs and other insults and you'll be surprised at how much info you'll get!

Generally, if you see a boat drifting around, then heading straight towards you, then I would guess he has some gear on or near the surface he doesn't want you to run in to. As for Spain and Portugal, personally I've never experienced the actions described, but I would think the language barrier would something to do with it! Believe it or not, they really don't want you tangled in their fishing gear!

Some drift nets can be up to and sometimes over 1000m, they'll be marked at each end but probably not in the middle. Long lines can be miles long and depending on the target species, near the surface, on the bottom and anywhere in between. Large scale long liners will have buoys with RDF beacons attached at regular intervals so they can recover them if they part or get get parted by shipping.

There is plenty of info on the web about fishing gear designs and techniques, have a look at how it all works, you can't have too much knowledge.

Years ago in Swansea Yacht & Sub Aqua Club, we used to have a meeting once or twice a year in club house, and invite the all local inshore fisherman (and wives & girlfriends) and get them to tell us how it all worked locally. It was always well supported (by both sides) and people learned what was going on, got know each other and it saved an awful lot of conflict; the bar always had fantastic takings!. I know some YCs can be incredibly stuck up their own arses, but it is worth the effort and really does save conflict.

As for the part time/weekend gill netter/potters; they are, sort of, not respected by anybody in my experience, and they usually are the ones who set gear where it shouldn't be!

 

[Ric]

Years ago in Swansea Yacht & Sub Aqua Club, we used to have a meeting once or twice a year in club house, and invite the all local inshore fisherman (and wives & girlfriends) and get them to tell us how it all worked locally. It was always well supported (by both sides) and people learned what was going on, got know each other and it saved an awful lot of conflict; the bar always had fantastic takings!. I know some YCs can be incredibly stuck up their own arses, but it is worth the effort and really does save conflict.

Good idea that. Surprising even to have a joint yacht and sub aqua club, as those are another two groups usually having a go at each other.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Can I ask?

Why not pass in front of trawlers if their nets are astern of them?

Passing ahead will mean that there are not any nets to snag!?

And if proceeding at a relatively low speed the trawlers should be easy to forge ahead of?

 

[GHA]

As for Spain and Portugal, personally I've never experienced the actions described,

As I said in the post, probably not trawlers, potters maybe? If you haven't had them head at you then maybe you just got lucky. Not been down there a million times though done it a few, but that run from viana down to caiscais seems to have a few little ones fire up the engines and head towards you. Not the end of the world but a bit annoying if you are wind and wing in a northerly and does make you wonder if they do it on purpose.
Or maybe I just get unlucky.

 

[Seajet]

Can I ask?

Why not pass in front of trawlers if their nets are astern of them?

Passing ahead will mean that there are not any nets to snag!?

And if proceeding at a relatively low speed the trawlers should be easy to forge ahead of?

Capt Popeye,

I was thinking ( and do in practice ) the same, though the angle and speeds have to be right to pass well ahead; fishing boat skippers can sometimes be bloody minded enough to speed up just to knobble a yottie, I know from personal experience that certain fishing boats in Poole and Weymouth take delight in causing max wash onto berthed boats, I've heard their gloating !

Do they really register on AIS every time they shoot / haul nets ?

 

[alant]

So general opinion is 1000meters to a mile astern then, wether they're rabid dogs or not? Any fisherman reading this please ignore the insults, I'm just asking so we yachties can pass behind you at a safe distance!

It wasn't an insult, simply an observation.

Few if any, yotties, understand what fishing boats are doing, particularly at night & particularly when in some areas they congregate in fleets, going an a variety of directions without obvious reason. They are working, so particularly at night, their lights are confusing & in the areas they fish, may not be keeping a particularly close watch for the occasional leisure vessel. We, as in the majority being non-commercial, owe those working boats some consideration & keep well clear. They have enough to contend with, without some yottie claiming 'stand on' or getting close to their gear.

 

[Ariadne]

SY&SAC, unusual yes, but beneficial to both parties. The club started out as a boating and diving club, but had to be a YC to get RYA status or something. Anyway it's been SY&SAC for a long time now and most member would not remember it's beginnings.

Talk to your local fishermen, you'll both different things out of it and learn about each others concerns, but unless you can convince both parties to go into it with an open mind you'll end up with sh%tfest......

 

[Seajet]

It wasn't an insult, simply an observation.

Few if any, yotties, understand what fishing boats are doing, particularly at night & particularly when in some areas they congregate in fleets, going an a variety of directions without obvious reason. They are working, so particularly at night, their lights are confusing & in the areas they fish, may not be keeping a particularly close watch for the occasional leisure vessel. We, as in the majority being non-commercial, owe those working boats some consideration & keep well clear. They have enough to contend with, without some yottie claiming 'stand on' or getting close to their gear.

I'd say yotties do their best to avoid fishing boats, hence this thread.

The snag I've found is when fishing boats make unpredictable turns leaving the yacht suddenly badly placed, the fishermen either don't look first or don't care, much like lorry drivers counting themselves professionals who own the road.

As for them displaying the correct lights, not many that I've seen, and the nav & other colreg lights are usually masked by bright deck floodlights.

 

[Nigel_Ward]

I think the problem is that most leisure sailors do not undertand that there are many different fishing methods and boats can look similar.

This publication by a former colleague of mine explains the common fishing methods.

http://www.seafish.org/media/Publications/Basic_Fishing_Gear_Booklet_May05.pdf

Having done trips on many fishing vessels as a researcher I would advise to keep well clear as fishing vessels, especially trawlers, may change course very suddenly to follow a contour or avoid a seabed obstruction!

 

[prv]

So general opinion is 1000meters to a mile astern then

Like everything, it depends.

There are some baby trawlers that toddle up and down Southampton Water from time to time, I've crossed fifty yards astern of them without any drama. It's obvious looking at their warps that they are angled down quite steeply. Wouldn't try the same with a big offshore boat though!

Pete