Passage from Ramsgate to Eastbourne, when to leave?

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mattp

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As the title suggests, looking for advice on the best time to depart ramsgate to get to Eastbourne.
I am sure I have read that you can pick up a second push tide after Dungeoness, or am I thinking if going in the other direction.
I am thinking that HW Dover +4 would require to pinch last if the tide for an hour before slack between ram gate and Dover and then make best use of the south west going tide. Is this wise punching tide for an hour or best to wait until slack at HW +3?
 
You don't say what your assumed speed is, but I'd do as you suggest and stem the last of the N going tide in order to get a fair tide around Dungeoness. It's c. 58 miles so if you make 6 kts you're looking at 10 hrs so you'll have to accept a foul tide at some part of the journey
 
Assuming 5.5 knots the best time seems to be around 5 hours after high waters Dover.
That would give you a 10 hour trip.
You would get a good fair tide to Dungeness and not to much of a foul tide the rest of the way.
This is from using the Savvy Navvy App.
I found this most helpful and quite accurate during my trip from Plymouth to Shotley
 
I did a passage plan( it is on the boat so do not have exact details) for end of May. I calculated that if I start to leave the harbour circa Dover HW + 4 and a bit, by the time I cast off & get out the adverse tide will have begun to go slack by HW + 5. Then I will have fair tide giving me 10.3 kts advantage for a good 6 hours The following adverse tide amounts to much less at around 2.5 kts. So that equates to 8 mile off the 60 mile journey. ( It is a bit more than 58 as one has to give Dover a 1.5 mile or so clearance)
So 52 miles at 5kts would be just over 10 hours plus faff getting in & out. But as I normally travel at 5.5 to 6 kts I do not plan to be out there for 10 hours & I hope to avoid the adverse tide as well.
But it all depends on the wind & sea state. It can be choppy past Dover, but one expects to use the engine there as ferries can be difficult.

I often wonder about the sense of going further off shore at a port. If one imagines ferries exiting at various angles from the entrance one is in the ferry path for a couple of miles. Awkward for both vessels.
However, if one went tight to the wall say 50 yards, & called the port to ask when it was safe to pass the entrance, one could be past the danger zone in 200 yards & be out of the way of the ferries.
 
Daydream believer said:
I did a passage plan( it is on the boat so do not have exact details) for end of May. I calculated that if I start to leave the harbour circa Dover HW + 4 and a bit, by the time I cast off & get out the adverse tide will have begun to go slack by HW + 5. Then I will have fair tide giving me 10.3 kts advantage for a good 6 hours The following adverse tide amounts to much less at around 2.5 kts. So that equates to 8 mile off the 60 mile journey. ( It is a bit more than 58 as one has to give Dover a 1.5 mile or so clearance)
So 52 miles at 5kts would be just over 10 hours plus faff getting in & out. But as I normally travel at 5.5 to 6 kts I do not plan to be out there for 10 hours & I hope to avoid the adverse tide as well.
But it all depends on the wind & sea state. It can be choppy past Dover, but one expects to use the engine there as ferries can be difficult.

I often wonder about the sense of going further off shore at a port. If one imagines ferries exiting at various angles from the entrance one is in the ferry path for a couple of miles. Awkward for both vessels.
However, if one went tight to the wall say 50 yards, & called the port to ask when it was safe to pass the entrance, one could be past the danger zone in 200 yards & be out of the way of the ferries.
Click to expand...
Thanks makes sense to me, forgot to mention based on 5kts average speed.
I completely agree about the port entrance, makes way more sense to me, treat it like a bridge opening, even a small craft traffic light system.
 
Daydream believer said:
I did a passage plan( it is on the boat so do not have exact details) for end of May. I calculated that if I start to leave the harbour circa Dover HW + 4 and a bit, by the time I cast off & get out the adverse tide will have begun to go slack by HW + 5. Then I will have fair tide giving me 10.3 kts advantage for a good 6 hours The following adverse tide amounts to much less at around 2.5 kts. So that equates to 8 mile off the 60 mile journey. ( It is a bit more than 58 as one has to give Dover a 1.5 mile or so clearance)
So 52 miles at 5kts would be just over 10 hours plus faff getting in & out. But as I normally travel at 5.5 to 6 kts I do not plan to be out there for 10 hours & I hope to avoid the adverse tide as well.
But it all depends on the wind & sea state. It can be choppy past Dover, but one expects to use the engine there as ferries can be difficult.

I often wonder about the sense of going further off shore at a port. If one imagines ferries exiting at various angles from the entrance one is in the ferry path for a couple of miles. Awkward for both vessels.
However, if one went tight to the wall say 50 yards, & called the port to ask when it was safe to pass the entrance, one could be past the danger zone in 200 yards & be out of the way of the ferries.
Click to expand...
Re your last bit.. it is pointless avoiding Dover by miles, just inform Port Control on 74 that you are going past, they can see you anyway and are very helpful.
If anyone is in any doubt, the ferries are merely PDV's under the Rules, with no special privileges although it is obviously seamanlike to keep out of their way. The Harbour Board website will have some advice.

Or go past on Christmas Day, when they are all asleep!
5B4D48D0-3E31-41E9-8695-9B65E57D9A9B.jpeg
 
Marmalade said:
You don't say what your assumed speed is, but I'd do as you suggest and stem the last of the N going tide in order to get a fair tide around Dungeoness. It's c. 58 miles so if you make 6 kts you're looking at 10 hrs so you'll have to accept a foul tide at some part of the journey
Click to expand...
Sorry 5kts, that would help.
 
mattp said:
Thanks makes sense to me, forgot to mention based on 5kts average speed.
I completely agree about the port entrance, makes way more sense to me, treat it like a bridge opening, even a small craft traffic light system.
Click to expand...
Just speak to Port Control soon after rounding the S.Foreland, they will get you across the Eastern Entrance with no drama and you will save miles.
 
If you start by punching the tide from Ramsgate, it might be more comfortable to take the inshore passage past Sandwich and nudging into shallower water. You won’t gain much time, with the slightly greater distance, but it will feel better.
 
johnalison said:
If you start by punching the tide from Ramsgate, it might be more comfortable to take the inshore passage past Sandwich and nudging into shallower water. You won’t gain much time, with the slightly greater distance, but it will feel better.
Click to expand...
Good point. It’s for this coming Sunday 7th. HW Dover is 04.01. We were planning on leaving at 06.00 as would prefer to arrive in Eastbourne at last light, but as the tidal stream is quite strong between ramsgate and Dover casting off at 08.00 maybe better then or even 0900 at slack, any advantage of leaving earlier will likely result on slow progress with wind against tide as it looks like NE to E wind direction.
are there any other reasons to not leave at 0600? Would it just be slow progress leaving then?
 
Last edited:
Just beware of the approach to Eastbourne , especially if the light is fading, last time we were there, lots of pot markers off Bexhill and perversely many were clustered around the Eastbourne safe water mark.
 
I only quoted the distance offshore because I was asked by port control to maintain that when i was on another boat passing some years ago. Plus I am sure I heard them asking other boats to do the same when i was going in.
But I shall stand corrected.
mattp said:
Good point. It’s for this coming Sunday 7th. HW Dover is 04.01. We were planning on leaving at 06.00 as would prefer to arrive in Eastbourne at last light, but as the tidal stream is quite strong between ramsgate and Dover casting off at 08.00 maybe better then or even 0900 at slack, any advantage of leaving earlier will likely result on slow progress with wind against tide as it looks like NE to E wind direction.
are there any other reasons to not leave at 0600? Would it just be slow progress leaving then?
Click to expand...
To leave at 06-00 you need to (realistically) get up at 05-00. If you leave 2 hours early you will possibly encounter 4.8+ kts of adverse tide. At 5 kts you will only travel 5 miles in 2 hours. Would it not be worth having an extra half hour in the Royal Temple YC the night before then an extra hour & a half in bed so that you are fully rested in the morning with zero stress etc.
You will not be sailing as there is less than 5Kts of wind so you will have to motor. Leaving early will just burn extra fuel. Possibly the whole way as the forcast is less than 9kts all day
Meto
 
Nauti Fox said:
Just beware of the approach to Eastbourne , especially if the light is fading, last time we were there, lots of pot markers off Bexhill and perversely many were clustered around the Eastbourne safe water mark.
Click to expand...

Yep, I got tangled with a pot marker next to the safe water mark in 2020, with wind and tide against I missed a daylight entry by 30 mins, not an experience I'm keen to experience again in a hurry.

Fails me why anyone would put pots next to a safe water mark!
 
Daydream believer said:
I only quoted the distance offshore because I was asked by port control to maintain that when i was on another boat passing some years ago. Plus I am sure I heard them asking other boats to do the same when i was going in.
But I shall stand corrected.

To leave at 06-00 you need to (realistically) get up at 05-00. If you leave 2 hours early you will possibly encounter 4.8+ kts of adverse tide. At 5 kts you will only travel 5 miles in 2 hours. Would it not be worth having an extra half hour in the Royal Temple YC the night before then an extra hour & a half in bed so that you are fully rested in the morning with zero stress etc.
You will not be sailing as there is less than 5Kts of wind so you will have to motor. Leaving early will just burn extra fuel. Possibly the whole way as the forcast is less than 9kts all day
Meto
Click to expand...
I take your point.
correction, Sunday 8th. Windy is predicting 10-15kts NE-E so hopefully that is correct
 
I think it is too far off to base any plans on, though you can reasonably assume that it won't be contrary. The wind tends to funnel through the Dover Straits but even so, 10-15 knots ground wind from nearly astern is not going to give you much push with two or three knots of tide under you, but at least it should be a pleasant trip.
 
Ningaloo said:
Each time I have done this (once in each direction) the winds have not been favourable for a direct passage so we went via Boulogne.
Might be worth considering if you are not in a hurry, even in these Brexit days.
Click to expand...
Boulogne is closed most of this season to visitors due to damaged pontoons. Plus it is not a port of entry. That means one has to go to Calais to get passport stamped on entry & exit
 
Passage completed last Sunday successfully in rather sporty conditions in average 18kts with gusts of 25kts in a ENE direction. Left Ramsgate at 0800, 4 hours after HW Dover and arrived at Eastbourne at 1930hrs.
we were in 1970s Morgan Giles 30 with long keel. Highest speed we clocked SOG was 9kts when surfing down the wave faces.
A good fun day ? thanks for all the advice
 
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