Part 1 Registry / SSR

[TwoHooter]

Not for me, I tried 3 times and was always told that they could not tell me if a name was available before sending in the application form. I simply asked if a particular name was available and was told that I could only find out by sending in the completed form. Absolutely refused to look up anything when I was on the phone. After my old boat's reg. had expired I thought I might be able to revert to that name, no chance of finding if it was available without actually applying. I then left it for more than 6 months in case they wanted to give new owner a chance to renew if he'd forgotten. Same result, it may be that I was just unlucky each time I called.

Fairly old thread but better to use it than start again.

I sent this email to the Part I people today:
'I understand that a vessel registered in Part I of the UK Ship Register must have a unique name. We are buying a vessel which we wish to register in part I, not part III. How can I check whether the proposed name for our vessel is unique?'

I got this reply (full marks for speed of response; no marks at all for helpfulness):
'Unfortunately to check name availability we need the Application to Register form to be completed and returned with the registration fee of £124 payable to MCA. We ask for a choice of names in order of preference and approval is then given to the first available name.'

Well, they may have got rid of the blue-bound book and the copperplate handwriting but it seems to me these people are living in the dark ages. Is the British Ship Register a public document or not? Answer, yes it is. If so, why isn't it published online? Why do I have to guess whether the name I want is already in use or not? It's poppycock. Bah. Humbug.

I shall go back and ask why I can't inspect the Register to see what names are in use.

 

[Nick_H]

Did you see my earlier post?

This VHF radio site is of some use for checking whether names are available, a "g" in the end columns denotes a UK registered vessel. I think it includes boats that are only SSR registered though, so there's some guesswork involved by looking at the ships particulars and trying to work out whether it will be on Pt 1 or not. However, if you enter the name and search, and find there are no boats with a "g" against them, it's almost certain that the name is available on Pt 1.

http://www.itu.int/online/mms/mars/ship_search.sh

 

[Croftie]

I shall go back and ask why I can't inspect the Register to see what names are in use.

As its a gov dept I wonder if you could do a freedom of information request. Say of several possible names.

 

[TwoHooter]

Did you see my earlier post?

Yes - and I already knew about it. But it is not the same as inspecting the actual register.

As its a gov dept I wonder if you could do a freedom of information request. Say of several possible names.

I did wonder about that, but hang on a minute, is this a public register or not? If it is a public register I ought to be able to inspect it.

I accept that there may be some reason why the register is not public and is secret. It'll have to be a good reason. And while I am at it, if the register is not public how can anyone be sure that a ship claiming to be registered does genuinely have that status? It's all very well presenting ship's papers, but papers can be forged. Generally speaking if something is supposed to be registered (best example is a company) then the register has to be open to public inspection otherwise all sorts of fraud would become possible.

We shall soon know. My email has gone off.

 

[Croftie]

I suppose if all 146,945 forum members did a FOI request for half a dozen names they my say what the hell, lets just make the register open to public inspection.

 

[jfm]

Good going TwoHooter. I think you have a point. The register is "open" to the public only in the sense you can have a copy of each entry on it at £33 per entry (iirc) - you cannot browse it even if you go to Cardiff.

There is a way to find out instantly for free whether a part 1 name is available, but if I write it here online everyone might use it then they will stop the practice. What to do??!

 

[DougH]

There is a way to find out instantly for free whether a part 1 name is available, but if I write it here online everyone might use it then they will stop the practice. What to do??!

Simple, we all route our requests for info though jfm and he uses his secret source.:encouragement::encouragement::encouragement:

 

[jfm]

Simple, we all route our requests for info though jfm and he uses his secret source.:encouragement::encouragement::encouragement:

Haha! It will become like the requests for jetrib manual - 100 requests!
It's a secret method not a secret source btw
I'm cruising Blearix this summer and in Cala D'Or sunday afternoon 2nd August for a few days so I'll wave if you're there

 

[TwoHooter]

Good going TwoHooter. I think you have a point. The register is "open" to the public only in the sense you can have a copy of each entry on it at £33 per entry (iirc) - you cannot browse it even if you go to Cardiff.

Thanks for the encouragement.

At the moment my perception of the Part 1 register is that the whole set-up is a load of b******s designed to serve the interests of the people who administer it.

But I am an open-minded sort of chap. I will give them ample opportunity to refute my criticism. I will even apologise if I am wrong. Meanwhile the ball is in their court.

So far they have not replied to my second email.

 

[DougH]

I'm cruising Blearix this summer and in Cala D'Or sunday afternoon 2nd August for a few days so I'll wave if you're there

Alas, Son and his family are using the boat from today until 10th August and I am consigned to managing the Company until his return.

So much for retirement.

Would have liked to meet up but my Son works exceedingly hard and desperately needs this holiday.

NB Try the Port Petit restaurant as it has changed it's menu and is very good for a 'posher' dining experience.

 

[jfm]

Alas, Son and his family are using the boat from today until 10th August and I am consigned to managing the Company until his return.

So much for retirement.

Would have liked to meet up but my Son works exceedingly hard and desperately needs this holiday.

NB Try the Port Petit restaurant as it has changed it's menu and is very good for a 'posher' dining experience.

OK, see you next time then!
Yes, Port Petit is already my favourite. Well, I'm no expert on Cala d'Or but I had a meal there several years ago with TCM of this parish, and I am planning to return on this trip.
I need to update the Silver Dee refit thread (my brother's boat) but he finished his refit and over the last 2 weeks has taken the boat from Troon in Scotland to Cala D'Or ready for summer holidays. The boat - blue trawler yacht - arrived last Sunday and is now about 10 places to your starboard side, below the yacht club

 

[DAW]

My experience of the MCA has been very positive whenever I've changed the registration details for boats I've owned.

For the most recent purchase, I sent four alternative names to MCA and received a call within 2-3 days asking which name I preferred. When I explained that none of them was really my preferred option (they were all "XXX of something" because I had been told by the former owner that the name on its own was not available) they found a way to make the name I actually wanted available for me.

I've found the Part I registration document very useful as a visitor to marinas in France, Corsica and Spain and on the few occasions when I've been stopped for spot-checks by customs patrols in SoF it seems to make requests for other documentation evaporate. It also helped to make the purchase and sale process considerably more straightforward.

Not sure I would go to the expense of registering a boat that was not already registered (survey required, etc.), but if you have it already I certainly wouldn't give it up for the sake of payment of a relatively modest fee.

 

[DougH]

. The boat - blue trawler yacht - arrived last Sunday and is now about 10 places to your starboard side, below the yacht club

Hope you mean to my port side otherwise I'm in trouble.

 

[TwoHooter]

My experience of the MCA has been very positive whenever I've changed the registration details for boats I've owned. For the most recent purchase, I sent four alternative names to MCA and received a call within 2-3 days asking which name I preferred. When I explained that none of them was really my preferred option (they were all "XXX of something" because I had been told by the former owner that the name on its own was not available) they found a way to make the name I actually wanted available for me.

Good. Glad to hear it. Doesn't explain why the register isn't public.

I've found the Part I registration document very useful as a visitor to marinas in France, Corsica and Spain and on the few occasions when I've been stopped for spot-checks by customs patrols in SoF it seems to make requests for other documentation evaporate. It also helped to make the purchase and sale process considerably more straightforward. Not sure I would go to the expense of registering a boat that was not already registered (survey required, etc.), but if you have it already I certainly wouldn't give it up for the sake of payment of a relatively modest fee.

Strengthens the argument in favour of the register being public, so that the documents you present are verifiable against a public register.

Aircraft are on a public register: https://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1. Registration of aircraft is compulsory but registration of boats is not (which is a Good Thing) but the principle is the same: if you are going to have a register it ought to be public. Also, the DVLR has opened up the vehicle registration database: https://www.vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/. Company registrations have always been publicly searchable (I remember visiting the old Companies House in City Road and flicking through the card indexes, I am getting old you see); now it's online of course. Do I need to go on?

Still no reply to my latest email.

 

[jfm]

Hope you mean to my port side otherwise I'm in trouble.

Ah yes, doh, I meant port side! Easy to mix up port n starboard!

 

[jfm]

Good. Glad to hear it. Doesn't explain why the register isn't public.



Strengthens the argument in favour of the register being public, so that the documents you present are verifiable against a public register.

Aircraft are on a public register: https://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=60&pagetype=65&appid=1. Registration of aircraft is compulsory but registration of boats is not (which is a Good Thing) but the principle is the same: if you are going to have a register it ought to be public. Also, the DVLR has opened up the vehicle registration database: https://www.vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/. Company registrations have always been publicly searchable (I remember visiting the old Companies House in City Road and flicking through the card indexes, I am getting old you see); now it's online of course. Do I need to go on?

Still no reply to my latest email.

I'm not arguing against your general point and indeed I'm encouraging you in your stance, but remember the the daft thing about the ship register is that is IS public, but it is not searchable and it costs £33 for each page you look at. The argument here is therefore about its "public" status being diluted by a clunky and expensive access mechanism. It is de facto not public by modern world standards but they are free to proclaim that it is public

 

[TwoHooter]

I'm not arguing against your general point and indeed I'm encouraging you in your stance, but remember the the daft thing about the ship register is that is IS public, but it is not searchable and it costs £33 for each page you look at. The argument here is therefore about its "public" status being diluted by a clunky and expensive access mechanism. It is de facto not public by modern world standards but they are free to proclaim that it is public

Point taken. We'll see how long that argument holds up once I get my teeth into it.

BTW one of the things I like about this forum is that a weighty (!) discussion about something important like the Ship Register of the United Kingdom can be punctuated by a parallel discussion about whose boat is moored which way round in some marina somewhere. Sort of keeps it all fun really, which, after all, is supposed to be the point.

 

[Robin]

Iirc the Part 1 name has to be unique (even if you qualify it by adding the registry port to the name) so when you change the name you have to give three options in case the one you want is already taken. Of course it is over 10 years since we did this so things might have improved

Changing the nameis easy enough but you need to own it first, and transfer the registry to your name. Then you can apply for a rename. Cl the registry people, they are very helpful an will tell you on the phone if your requested name is available and even 'hold' it for you pending the paper work. We changed boat names twice in the past on UK part 1 boats, first time to get 'our ' name, second time to retain it as we moved on up. in the latter casewe had to first change the name to another so we could take that for the new boat. we had 'Heartbeat', changed it to 'Heartbeat of Arne' prior to sale, then renamed our new boat that we already owned from Taragona to Heartbeat. We changed the port of Registry at the same time. ALways worth retaining Part1 registry in case when you eventually sell, the buyer needs finance.

 

[TwoHooter]

Changing the nameis easy enough but you need to own it first, and transfer the registry to your name. Then you can apply for a rename. Cl the registry people, they are very helpful an will tell you on the phone if your requested name is available and even 'hold' it for you pending the paper work.

Just to make sure I understand this, will they tell you on the phone if your requested name is available before or after you have paid the £124 fee? The reason I ask is that,as mentioned above, their email to me said: 'Unfortunately to check name availability we need the Application to Register form to be completed and returned with the registration fee of £124 payable to MCA. We ask for a choice of names in order of preference and approval is then given to the first available name.'The official response is therefore that they work through your list of names and allocate the first one which is not already in use. Is this negated by an unofficial willingness to tell you whether your preferred name is available, provided you have paid them £124 first?

 

[Robin]

Just to make sure I understand this, will they tell you on the phone if your requested name is available before or after you have paid the £124 fee? The reason I ask is that,as mentioned above, their email to me said: 'Unfortunately to check name availability we need the Application to Register form to be completed and returned with the registration fee of £124 payable to MCA. We ask for a choice of names in order of preference and approval is then given to the first available name.'The official response is therefore that they work through your list of names and allocate the first one which is not already in use. Is this negated by an unofficial willingness to tell you whether your preferred name is available, provided you have paid them £124 first?

i haven't changed names frequently enough recently to answer, I don't guess many will have done so either, but they were very helpful to me in the past when I did. Maybe the difference is between an old fashioned telephone voice call versus an anonymous email (especially if one filled in on their website to which perhaps an automatic response is sent? Surely it doesn't do any harm to call them and ask, as the worst case scenario is they say no and you are no worse off .