Parachute sea anchor

[serini]

I have carried a BORD ‘chute for use as a sea anchor for more than ten years now and not had to use it. I was recently discussing the knock-down of Jeanne Socrates’s boat off Cape Horn with a very experienced friend who commented on her actions just before the knock down as ‘something which would make Adlard Coles turn in his grave’. I didn’t understand this comment but I have Coles’s book so I read it again. I still don’t understand the comment as applied to Jeanne but what surprised me was the negative comments about sea anchors. As it happens I have Erroll Bruce’s book as well and that agrees with Coles. On the other side of the debate is the enthusiastic support for using a large parachute off the bow as promoted by the Pardeys from which they have practically made a career!

So my question is – have any of you used a sea anchor rigged off the bow in a real blow?

My own gale experience has always been running- off under bare poles and since that has worked so well and the self-steering copes I have never felt the need to experiment but the day may come when running – off is not an option and I would like to know what others have experienced.

 

[Kelpie]

This is an interesting topic. Like you, I carry a sea anchor aboard and have never had to use it, not that I've really been sailing long enough to have been caught out yet.

I have recently read Adlard Coles and was struck by the description of the yacht which, having been rolled and dismasted, struggled to stay head to wind despite lashing mattresses to the pushpit and streaming everything they had (including the mast!) from the bow. It seems that some boats just do not want to lie head to wind and to generate the required holding power means subjecting the boat to unreasonable forces.
On the other hand Frank Dye, famous in Wayfarer circles, attributed his survival to lying head-to-wind using a sea anchor. So perhaps with a small enough, flat-bottomed, lightweight boat this is a viable option. I wonder how large a boat can be and have this still be worth doing- e.g. some of the smaller AWBs which have a dinghy-like hull shape.

Another proponent of sea anchors is Ken Duxbury, who cruised extensively in a Drascombe Lugger, and considered them a vital part of safety gear (see 'Seamanship in Small Open Boats).

 

[oldvarnish]

Like the above, I've never had to make the choice. For all the good reports of parachute anchors there are just as many bad ones, as with all these things. It's a difficult decision to make when it is such a rare experience.
For my ocean sailing, I've chosen the Jordan drogue. I read the stuff and decided it was the way for me. But I may be wrong. I hope I never find out.

 

[VO5]

I am going to stick my neck out here and ask you a question for you to consider with care....

What is easier ?

Is it easier to steer astern and go stern foremost and sustain the heading indefinitely, or is it easier to steer ahead and go bow foremost indefinitely ?

 

[Tradewinds]

In Jeanne Socrates' blog on the day of her knockdown she mentions putting out a 'series drogue' which suggest a Jordan type arrangement rather than a sea anchor.

 

[Lady Campanula]

I am going to stick my neck out here and ask you a question for you to consider with care.... What is easier ?

Is it easier to steer astern and go stern foremost and sustain the heading indefinitely, or is it easier to steer ahead and go bow foremost indefinitely ?

I have considered this with care, over a lot of years, and the question - and its premise - is misleading. I'm persuaded there are two differing circumstances...

A) When you want to keep the boat moving, but at a much reduced speed. That is, running off under control.

In such an event, towing a suitable drogue to minimise speed/minimise broaching and being rolled over, seems to fit the need.

B) When you want to stop the boat, go below, and let the winds and weather roll on past you, then some form of lying a-hull, stopped in the water, is indicated. Beam-on to the seas is undesirable, due to the increased potential for being rolled, so a means of holding the bows reliably to the advancing seas is indicated.

I see these, as does Bruce, Pardey, and others, as two distinctly different tasks, and consequently, decisions. Two different tactics, requiring different gear and preparation.....

There's no "One size fits all"....

IMHO

 

[VO5]

I have considered this with care, over a lot of years, and the question - and its premise - is misleading. I'm persuaded there are two differing circumstances...

A) When you want to keep the boat moving, but at a much reduced speed. That is, running off under control.

In such an event, towing a suitable drogue to minimise speed/minimise broaching and being rolled over, seems to fit the need.

B) When you want to stop the boat, go below, and let the winds and weather roll on past you, then some form of lying a-hull, stopped in the water, is indicated. Beam-on to the seas is undesirable, due to the increased potential for being rolled, so a means of holding the bows reliably to the advancing seas is indicated.

I see these, as does Bruce, Pardey, and others, as two distinctly different tasks, and consequently, decisions. Two different tactics, requiring different gear and preparation.....

There's no "One size fits all"....

IMHO

Exactly, quite so. However, I put forward the question as it seems the idea of streaming from the bow seems so fashionable nowadays, apparently to deal with all circumstances, which I find puzzling.

 

[snowleopard]

Is it easier to steer astern and go stern foremost and sustain the heading indefinitely, or is it easier to steer ahead and go bow foremost indefinitely ?

That question only demonstrates a total lack of understanding of the function of a parachute anchor. Do you really imagine the crew sit at the helm steering the boat backwards?

 

[SHUG]

Lady Campanula has said all that needs to be said with perhaps the addition of a small riding sail the keep the boat head to wind when the sea anchor is deployed at the bow.

 

[snowleopard]

Another question to ask when comparing sea anchors and drogues - which end of the boat is designed to be exposed to waves? And which has a large receptacle to fill with water and a companionway capable of being stove in by big seas?

What may be quite safe in F8-9 may no longer be suitable in F10+

 

[VO5]

That is the second intruiging post you have made on this thread with regard to parachutes and drogues, Snowleopard. I am interested to hear of your last experience in a Ten and what you did and did not do, and your reasons why and why not. I thank you.

 

[serini]

Sea Anchor

I am going to stick my neck out here and ask you a question for you to consider with care....

What is easier ?

Is it easier to steer astern and go stern foremost and sustain the heading indefinitely, or is it easier to steer ahead and go bow foremost indefinitely ?

Thanks for this VO5. Don't mind at all you sticking your neck out but not too sure I know what you mean.

I have been in four gales with sustained wind in excess of 40 knots. The first was in the Atlantic in a Nantucket Clipper. We ran before with a storm jib. The next three were in the Shearwater 39 I have now. The second was an un-forecast westerly off Cape Trafalgar. We were heading west, and reached back and forth for 24 hours under staysail and triple reefed main. The seas were confused for the first 12 hours but then settled down (and built up!) to a very impressive westerly formation. We couldn't make any progress to windward but the held our line quite comfortably but hand steering luffing and then bearing away with the swells. The third was an unforecast Northerly 12 hours out from Cork heading to La Coruna. (I have the bill from the Met Office to prove it was unforcast!). 40 gusting 50 for 3 hours, 35 for the rest of the time. We ran under bare poles for 24 hours with the wind vane steering. The last was coming back from the Azores. We were four days out and could see the system developing but it only looked as if we would be blessed with 30knots from NE. This was so until fifty miles off St. Vincent when what I guess in an accelaration zone gave us over 50. We had to drop the main since under third reef we were over canvassed with the danger of the boom dragging in the sea as we eased it. We continued reaching under storm jib set from the inner forestay but we had to hand steer because the boat was so un-balanced. We recorded 68kn in a gust off St. Vincent. So, in all of these, we were definitely going forward!

 

[nathanlee]

I've been doing quite a lot of research on this lately. Indeed, there's a lengthy blog post on the subject to come, but what I've settled on is thus.

Storm Tactics Handbook, by the Pardey's, advocates the sea anchor approach, and they do make a convincing argument. The magic "slick" sounds wonderful, and of course there's the other arguments about running with a storm prolonging it and so on. I was so convinced that the sea anchor was the method I was going to invest in.

However, having read Roger Taylors latest book, in which he sings equal praises about the Jordan Series Drogue, I started to dig around into the two options.

I'll save the lengthy version of this for the blog post, but my conclusion is that the series drogue is the better option. Tank tests have been performed, and you can find a plethora of scientific and mathematical evidence and theory to back it up. The sea anchor, as far as I can find so far, has nothing other than accounts by people who have used them, and while this is good supporting evidence, it doesn't have the theory to back it up.

Also, rudder damage is a possibility with the sea anchor, where as no accounts have been recorded (to my knowledge) of similar damage while using a JSD.

I quote from the para-anchor FAQ's: "Even with minimal risk there still is a chance that a boat could lose its grip in heavy weather and slide backwards, jamming the rudder over hard enough to shear the pintles or part the rudder from its shaft. Adding simple rudder stops and shock cord to the tiller are two common ways to reduce possible rudder damage."

 

[serini]

Sea Anchor

I have considered this with care, over a lot of years, and the question - and its premise - is misleading. I'm persuaded there are two differing circumstances...

A) When you want to keep the boat moving, but at a much reduced speed. That is, running off under control.

In such an event, towing a suitable drogue to minimise speed/minimise broaching and being rolled over, seems to fit the need.

B) When you want to stop the boat, go below, and let the winds and weather roll on past you, then some form of lying a-hull, stopped in the water, is indicated. Beam-on to the seas is undesirable, due to the increased potential for being rolled, so a means of holding the bows reliably to the advancing seas is indicated.

I see these, as does Bruce, Pardey, and others, as two distinctly different tasks, and consequently, decisions. Two different tactics, requiring different gear and preparation.....

There's no "One size fits all"....

IMHO

Thanks for this. Of course I understand there is no 'one size fits all' both with regard to the boat and the situation.

The reason I asked this question was that when I looked again at Coles and Bruce I was surprised to see (certainly what I interpreted) as a vote against the sea anchor from the bow unless you had problems with what lies to leeward. Coles certainly contains reports where skippers have said that in their opinion lying to a sea anchor would have lost them their boat.

I have to say what I found equally surprising is several reports of running off with towed lines/drogues and then, as conditions worsened, deliberately dumping the drogues to regain control of the boat. The most obvious case of this is probably Moitessier's report where he says that if he had not dumped the drogues he would have lost his boat.

All of this against the promotion of the sea-anchor from the bow by the Pardeys.

That is why I asked the question to see if what the Pardeys advocate has been tried by any of you with good results. My experience has been to run-off and I have been lucky that I have always had room to do so.

I started this thread following a comment which had been made about Jeanne's knockdown. She reports that she had hove-to. There is a subsequent mention of her series drogue being fouled by a fishing boat so that may - or may not - have been deployed at the time of her knock down. A very, very experienced acquaintance of mine said he was not surprised at the knock down and 'Adlard Coles would turn in his grave' so I read the posts again and could not see much wrong with her heaving to under the conditions reported unless she ended up broadside on (so effectively ahull) and the hull tripped. Or unless of course if there was just simply a freak wave with her name on it. Anybody else got another take on this?

Thanks to you all for your posts.

 

[VO5]

Thanks for this VO5. Don't mind at all you sticking your neck out but not too sure I know what you mean.

I have been in four gales with sustained wind in excess of 40 knots. The first was in the Atlantic in a Nantucket Clipper. We ran before with a storm jib. The next three were in the Shearwater 39 I have now. The second was an un-forecast westerly off Cape Trafalgar. We were heading west, and reached back and forth for 24 hours under staysail and triple reefed main. The seas were confused for the first 12 hours but then settled down (and built up!) to a very impressive westerly formation. We couldn't make any progress to windward but the held our line quite comfortably but hand steering luffing and then bearing away with the swells. The third was an unforecast Northerly 12 hours out from Cork heading to La Coruna. (I have the bill from the Met Office to prove it was unforcast!). 40 gusting 50 for 3 hours, 35 for the rest of the time. We ran under bare poles for 24 hours with the wind vane steering. The last was coming back from the Azores. We were four days out and could see the system developing but it only looked as if we would be blessed with 30knots from NE. This was so until fifty miles off St. Vincent when what I guess in an accelaration zone gave us over 50. We had to drop the main since under third reef we were over canvassed with the danger of the boom dragging in the sea as we eased it. We continued reaching under storm jib set from the inner forestay but we had to hand steer because the boat was so un-balanced. We recorded 68kn in a gust off St. Vincent. So, in all of these, we were definitely going forward!

Let us wait for Snowleopard to postulate his hypothesis and once he has done so, I will give you a full explanation. Let us just be patient.

 

[Lady Campanula]

Thanks for this. Of course I understand there is no 'one size fits all' both with regard to the boat and the situation.

I would not cast myself as an authority on 'what to do when pounced upon by a serious storm in deep water', but I feel it important to introduce another dimension.

When I first read 'Heavy Weather Sailing', 'The Drag Device Database' and the Pardeys' manual, I had in mind a catamaran. The arguments, and the conclusions, shift considerably when one specifies a particular hull form and 'behaviour' on the face of breaking waves.

Should one run off in a catamaran or trimaran, there is the prospect of going ever faster and faster, until one trips a lee bow, and diagonal capsize becomes a real likelihood. I have been in such a situation, twice, and I remember the circumstances only too well.

I recall Sir RKJ, writing about the last 24 hours' run across Biscay in the 120-foot catamaran 'Royal and Sun Alliance' at the end of a round-the-world record venture, telling of "having everything out astern we could drag and wishing for more", still being unable to slow the boat sufficiently, and that that final downwind run was certainly the scariest leg of the whole trip.

If one then drags a 'device' from the stern(s) of a cruising cat' such that the boat speed is kept well below that of advancing seas, there is a real prospect of a breaker suddenly filling the stern cockpit with many tons of water, bursting open the cockpit doors ( often as big as patio doors in a bungalow ) and those tons of water finding their way below - 'downflooding' - where they can stop the engines PDQ. Down by the stern, the cat is then minutes away from foundering. It has happened, and more than once.

Hence the imperative, in a cruising multihull, to face the oncoming breaking seas - and that requires a parachute sea anchor on a bridle.

IMO

 

[Ceirwan]

That question only demonstrates a total lack of understanding of the function of a parachute anchor. Do you really imagine the crew sit at the helm steering the boat backwards?

I believe that VO5 was making a reference to the fact that unlike when the boat is riding to an anchor or mooring and pointing the nose into the tide or wind, no matter how good a parachute, if it's deployed in heavy weather then the yacht will be moving backwards regardless. Potentially very fast if the sea anchor collapses, loses grip etc. Not great for a rudder.

FWIW I personally believe that its all speculations until you've been there and done it, in my preperations to go offshore, I intend to carry a Sea-Brake drouge, also equip the boat to heave to as described by the Pardeys in Storm Tactics.

My plan is then to go out when its blowing a hoolie and practice! Obviously its still no substitute for the real thing, but I think that practice with deploying the gear will be a good advantage.
And by having a few methods available, you don't carry all your eggs in one basket.

I personally hope that maybe with the assistance of a parachute anchor on a bridle, my boat will heave to and keep the sea's at bay that way. I'm only ever going to find out when I do it.

 

[prv]

promotion of the sea-anchor from the bow by the Pardeys.

If I remember rightly, they actually recommend streaming it from a bridle down the windward side of the boat, so that its position can be adjusted fore and aft. It's more from the bow than from the stern, but in some diagrams it's shown as putting the boat almost beam-on to the wind.

Pete

 

[Woodlouse]

I've only read two editions of Heavy Weather Sailing, the 2nd, and the 5th. One thing I really did notice was the difference in opinion between the two. In the second edition all the advice seemed to point at either streaming warps or towing drogues and running before the storm. Where as the 5th edition seemed to promote the use of sea anchors as a much preferable tactic. Something I'm sure to do with how boat design had changed between the two publications, rather than the effectiveness of either method.

 

[Ceirwan]

If I remember rightly, they actually recommend streaming it from a bridle down the windward side of the boat, so that its position can be adjusted fore and aft. It's more from the bow than from the stern, but in some diagrams it's shown as putting the boat almost beam-on to the wind.

Pete

Yes your right, they don't use it to keep the yacht head to wind, but instead to stop the yacht sailing forwards out of its own protective slick when hove to.

Nathan, out of interest, do you know how bad the conditions/sea state were when Roger Taylor deployed the drouge on ming ming? I've seen his youtube video of when he had to deploy, it, and would conject that while its a blow, it's not necessarily survival conditions as depicted in a lot of other accounts.