Pagham - West Sussex.

[blackbeard]

Has anyone ever been into Pagham? ......

Never into it but I have walked most of the way around it! Start from Pagham village and continue until you think you have gone far enough, you will probably have to more or less retrace your steps to get back to starting point. Very pretty walk, recommended, perhaps when too blowy to sail out of Chi.
The harbour used to be MUCH bigger, at least on a high spring, but much of it has been drained for agriculture. Sea walls are still visible. At one time there was a sea wall right across the entrance, but the sea broke though eventually to leave us with the small harbour we see now.
Sidlesham used to have a tide mill, grain came in, and flour out, in small sailing vessels. Mill has long gone and with it, the scour from the mill pond, which presumably is why the quay and channel are silting. Good to see the pub still there.

 

[maxcampbell]

I have navigated from the Crab & Lobster - Sidlesham Quay - to Selsey west beach, but only in a kayak. I did feel as though I was breaking the law, but am now pleased to see I wasn't.

Church Norton spit has changed shape & size considerably over the last 40 years - in the '60's there was almost no spit visible.

Tidal stream at the entrance is very fast - guessing 5Kn+

 

[Carribean Blue]

Tidal stream at the entrance is very fast - guessing 5Kn+

If you look at the photograph, the dark strip in the water to the right of the sign board, shows shoal area, on the outside of the bend further to the right, the channel is over 5 metres deep and flows in excess of 4 knots at half tide.

This was measured, on one of my visits to the harbour last year. I measured the tideflow by holding the vessel steady, relative to the banks.

 

[sea urchin]

The Pagham Harbour Local Nature Reserve is now (March 2010) talking about applying to have the area outside the mouth to Pagham Harbour designated a "voluntary" marine nature reserve under the "Marine Bill".

Presumably they mean a marine conservation zone?

This is what it says in the manager's report for a meeting of the harbour advisory board next Tuesday 9th March:
Voluntary Marine Reserve - Gather data to establish importance of waters offshore. This will be addressed through proposals to identify Protected Marine Areas nationwide (Marine Bill)

If anyone is interested in attending the meeting, then it will be at the The Inglenook Hotel, 225 Pagham Road, Pagham, PO21 3QB at 6.30 p.m
The meeting is open to the public who can participate during the public session.

NOTE ALSO that the main agenda item is about the transfer of the harbour to the RSPB

Whilst this thread shows that the harbour is now mudbound, and navigation is therefore somewhat restricted (ie it needs a "militant dredger"), our rights need to be stated and protected. Otherwise this could be the thin end of the wedge . You only have to look at the threads on Studland Bay.......

 

[Carribean Blue]

Studland Bay! .... Sounds familiar!

It might be worth looking at the letter from Edmund Whelan (senior barrister RYA, at the time) page 15 "All at Sea", Nov/Dec 2002:-

"As every boat-owner knows, or should know, the Common Law of the land provides us with a free public right of navigation on tidal waters, which goes back to time immemorial," ........ "although if some conservation bodies had their way, extensive marine nature reserve areas could also become 'no-go-zones'."
"A popular example of a place entirely free to anchor is Studland Bay" .... "However, the Bay is neither natural harbour" ..... "nor a statutory harbour" .... "there is no authority or landowner in the country with the authority to prohibit boats from anchoring or to require a fee for doing so".


I suggest you all read this letter in full,and then read his book - "The Yachtsman and the Law" (RYA publication)

 

[sea urchin]

Presumably they mean a marine conservation zone? (The nearby Mixon hole off Selsey is already earmarked as a possible MCZ, by some conservationists, also). If so, how will this affect anchoring at the scour hole between the Barn Rocks and the Mulberry.

Voluntary marine reserves are nothing new, being pre Marine Bill/Act, and are voluntary, so not too much of a worry. This idea was abandoned by the nature reserve previously, being seen as ineffectual as not enforceable.

The question is; how can they enforce the MCZ's? Unless the government proposes to put resources into policing them (ha ha ) then how can they be more effective than the voluntary reserves?

Whereas the voluntary reserves invite the goodwill of all concerned, so may succeed, the MCZ's may just wind people up and lose their co-operation. Seems like a backward step.

So just who will enforce MCZ byelaws at the Mixon and off Pagham Harbour?

 

[blackbeard]

If you compare Pagham and Chichester Harbours, specially at low water, you can see the mess that heavy water-bourne traffic makes of delicate environments like these.

Leave Pagham to the twitchers.

Can't help asking - what should we be looking for? I can see that Pagham has in general more vegetation than Chi, but isn't this more likely to be the effect of a smaller harbour where the wind-generated waves will be smaller with less fetch? how could small and relatively slow-moving boats have any measurable effect at all?

 

[selsey girl]

The harbour used to be MUCH bigger, at least on a high spring, but much of it has been drained for agriculture. Sea walls are still visible. At one time there was a sea wall right across the entrance, but the sea broke though eventually to leave us with the small harbour we see now.
Sidlesham used to have a tide mill, grain came in, and flour out, in small sailing vessels. Mill has long gone and with it, the scour from the mill pond, which presumably is why the quay and channel are silting. Good to see the pub still there.

You are going back a bit - over this time scale much of the coastline has changed!
There is a bit of the history in this leaflet produced by WSCC:
http://www2.westsussex.gov.uk/leisureandtourism/prow/pdfs/Sidlesham_Ferry_Nat_Trail.pdf

It mentions the closure of the entrance in 1876, and prior to that the average of 68 boats of 25 tons which visited each year, with cargoes of coal, grain and flour.

The closure did not work for long - the wall was breached in a storm in 1910, and the reclaimed land returned to the sea.

 

[Carribean Blue]

The question is; how can they enforce the MCZ's? Unless the government proposes to put resources into policing them (ha ha ) then how can they be more effective than the voluntary reserves?

Whereas the voluntary reserves invite the goodwill of all concerned, so may succeed, the MCZ's may just wind people up and lose their co-operation. Seems like a backward step.

So just who will enforce MCZ byelaws at the Mixon and off Pagham Harbour?

Mutual trust and respect, has led to co-operation between boat owners and the police, customs and immigration staff, harbour police, etc (see operation Kraken). The coastguard, RNLI, fishery protection vessels, the EA and harbour patrols, also benefit from boat owners, with their many eyes and ears continually out on the water.

All this could put all this at risk!, by perceived infringement or restriction of boat owners' freedom, or the over zealous enforcement of apparently petty bylaws. (We all have radio, and the alarm would soon go out thus undermining enforcement of MCZ bylaws).

 

[Mark-1]

I had a paddle around the Harbour this weekend.

The general view I've heard seems to be that you could sail within the Harbour, but not land without permission. In fact this isn't true. It seems the NR doesn't cover the whole harbour at all, and, obviously, you can freely land/launch outside of the bounds of the NR.

http://www2.westsussex.gov.uk/ds/mis/290212dlc8.pdf

"It is also possible to launch into the Harbour from areas outside of the Reserve"

 

[BrunoandChianti]

Water up to Sidlesham Quay

There's a quay there so there must have been enough water to get inside at some point.

You could not tie up there today as there are no bollards or rings that I can see.

Sorry Guy's I have got to laugh!!

I have never seen that much water in Pagham Harbour, certianly not at the roman quay shown in the photo. Looks like you can take a boat in. A model boat drawing 6 inches would struggle, amazed you can't see all the grass.

Lovely photo though, photographer must have waited for the highest tide of the decade!!

 

[Mark-1]

I went back this evening to take a look at the entrance at low tide:

http://fattie.freehostia.com/1DELETE/PaghamHarbour1900_1_9_2012

 

[sea urchin]

Sorry Guy's I have got to laugh!!

I have never seen that much water in Pagham Harbour, certianly not at the roman quay shown in the photo. Looks like you can take a boat in. A model boat drawing 6 inches would struggle, amazed you can't see all the grass.

Lovely photo though, photographer must have waited for the highest tide of the decade!!

Believe it or not, at the highest tides of the year, (coming up after the equinox) the road is also completely covered by water, evidenced by the barriers protecting the front doors of homes adjoining the road.

It is possible to launch a small craft from the Quay a couple of days either side of most spring tides (barometric pressure dependant) for a an hour or so either side of high tide.

West Sussex County Council is now promoting Sidlesham Quay as a launch site:-
"1.3 It is possible to navigate in and out of the harbour on tidal waters under the Public Right of Navigation. It is also possible to launch into the Harbour from areas outside of the Reserve, such as Sidlesham Quay"
Quoted from its website: http://www2.westsussex.gov.uk/ds/mis/290212dlc8.pdf

 

[sea urchin]

I went back this evening to take a look at the entrance at low tide:

http://fattie.freehostia.com/1DELETE/PaghamHarbour1900_1_9_2012

Like the pics Mark. The south cardinal maybe should be re-designated an west cardinal.

They illustrate well that the entrance now makes very interesting boat handling. The channel runs alongside the fourth groyne with only narrow clearance of the new extension to the spit which is forming!

Your picture of the south cardinal from the North does however illustrate the tidal range as shown by the weed on the shingle bank opposite (Church Norton Spit)

 

[Twister_Ken]

I went back this evening to take a look at the entrance at low tide:

http://fattie.freehostia.com/1DELETE/PaghamHarbour1900_1_9_2012

Nothing that a bit of militant dredging couldn't sort out!

 

[FistralG]

It's amazing how much he harbour entrance has changed over he years. I last went on the annual PYC cruise to the Crab and Lobster at Sidlesham over 30 years ago and the entrance channel went straight in from the sea. The spit on the Church Norton side of the entrance was negligible in comparison to what it appears to be today.

 

[jerram]

Pagham needs Dylan

I think Dylan should bring Katie L down to Pagham with his Duck punt and explore/survey the harbour for new charts to be drawn up

 

[Poignard]

R.T.Mcmullen (Victorian. Author of 'Down Channel') often used to anchor to the East of Selsey in an area called 'The Park'.

I looked at it on a chart a while ago and it is labelled 'Foul' so I suppose something has been dumped there since McMullen's day. Maybe debris left over from WWII?

 

[AndrewB]

R.T.Mcmullen (Victorian. Author of 'Down Channel') often used to anchor to the East of Selsey in an area called 'The Park'.

I looked at it on a chart a while ago and it is labelled 'Foul' so I suppose something has been dumped there since McMullen's day. Maybe debris left over from WWII?

I believe it is remnants of materials used for the WWII Mulberry Harbours, including one complete jetty known as "Far Mulberry". Pity it's still foul, because otherwise it looks nice and sheltered in there from W and SW winds.

I have anchored overnight behind nearby Bognor Rocks - care is needed with this.

 

[dulcibella]

Good decision!