Packing locks

[miket]

On our return from Rochester and the R Blackwater we had an easy trip back up from Teddington with a full set of lock keepers and no queues. Often just our 2boats.
Then we arrived at Marlow!
Stooged in a queue outside the lock, with lock moorings full. Can’t remember how many locks we had to wait, but at least 3. Eventually we’re invited to be the last boat, just inside the gates and straddling the inset section. Very uncomfortable. Very slow fill as boats were very close together. I kept engine on to avoid running into the dinghy of the boat in front, as our stern line was straight up, giving little control.
To my mind this was a classic instance where, getting them in and through, as quickly as possible, would be quicker than squeezing in the most boats and having to do a slow fill.
Very kind of the lock keeper but misplaced.
This blockage then persisted until we opted out at Hurley, as Temple and Hurley are smaller than Marlow.
A case of lack of experienced lock keepers?

 

[ianc1200]

Agree 100%. Get boats in and out quicker and don't try to get too many in, and have to slowly fill/empty.

 

[sailorman]

On our return from Rochester and the R Blackwater we had an easy trip back up from Teddington with a full set of lock keepers and no queues. Often just our 2boats.
Then we arrived at Marlow!
Stooged in a queue outside the lock, with lock moorings full. Can’t remember how many locks we had to wait, but at least 3. Eventually we’re invited to be the last boat, just inside the gates and straddling the inset section. Very uncomfortable. Very slow fill as boats were very close together. I kept engine on to avoid running into the dinghy of the boat in front, as our stern line was straight up, giving little control.
To my mind this was a classic instance where, getting them in and through, as quickly as possible, would be quicker than squeezing in the most boats and having to do a slow fill.
Very kind of the lock keeper but misplaced.
This blockage then persisted until we opted out at Hurley, as Temple and Hurley are smaller than Marlow.
A case of lack of experienced lock keepers?

Were they saving water in the drought

 

[miket]

This was back end of last week, so not really?
If they were, they were the only lock doing it.

 

[Cashbuyer]

There was a volunteer at Temple last year who insisted that he knew best and on more than one occasion crammed the lock to bursting point.
We had three volunteers on duty on one occasion and everyone was being asked to move up the lock until we pointed out that our gunwhales were overlapping and also extending over the lock edge. Mr know it all was having none of this until at least two of us told him in no uncertain terms that he was not to close the gates until at least one boat had been removed.
He relented and the last boat in had to reverse back to the lay-by.
I think less experienced boaters would have had a big problem had it not been made clear to him about the dangers of his actions and his insistence on wielding power.
Ironically we then arrived at Marlow on a busy summer Saturday to find it on self service. And had been all day apparently. Surely one of the three volunteers at Temple could have been moved to Marlow?
Volunteers are obviously worthwhile and do a great job but some do need more training and a dose of common sense.

 

[Old Crusty]

There was a volunteer at Temple last year who insisted that he knew best and on more than one occasion crammed the lock to bursting point.
We had three volunteers on duty on one occasion and everyone was being asked to move up the lock until we pointed out that our gunwhales were overlapping and also extending over the lock edge. Mr know it all was having none of this until at least two of us told him in no uncertain terms that he was not to close the gates until at least one boat had been removed.
He relented and the last boat in had to reverse back to the lay-by.
I think less experienced boaters would have had a big problem had it not been made clear to him about the dangers of his actions and his insistence on wielding power.
Ironically we then arrived at Marlow on a busy summer Saturday to find it on self service. And had been all day apparently. Surely one of the three volunteers at Temple could have been moved to Marlow?
Volunteers are obviously worthwhile and do a great job but some do need more training and a dose of common sense.

Can't be done, volunteers are not allowed to work without a paid member of EA staff to supervise except for 90 minutes each day to cover lunch and weir work.

 

[djm]

Can't be done, volunteers are not allowed to work without a paid member of EA staff to supervise except for 90 minutes each day to cover lunch and weir work.

And the reason for that goes a long way to explain why the current EA management of our waterways is so wasteful, inefficient and incompetent.

 

[Old Crusty]

And the reason for that goes a long way to explain why the current EA management of our waterways is so wasteful, inefficient and incompetent.

Why is that then? Do you have empirical evidence? In this case it's an agreement with the unions.

 

[Riverleak]

Cant understand the train of thoughts on this post, on one hand, you're saying you dont want volunteers running locks due to them making mistakes and putting people and vessels in danger, then on the other hand you're saying let them run the locks! You then go on to blame the EA management.
If someone got hurt, or a vessel severly damaged due to the ineptitude of a volunteer due to not having the experience of a proffesional lock keeper to call upon, I'm sure there would be serious repercussions.

 

[djm]

In this case it's an agreement with the unions.

Precisely. The same sort of protectionist agreement that virtually wrecked British businesses in the 1970s.

Time for the EA to join the real world instead of trying to rely on a magic money tree that is no longer bearing fruit.

 

[Chris_d]

This thread is a bit odd, normally the complaints are about not packing the locks!
I've certainly not experienced this issue but Marlow is an odd one, being so deep and having an odd shape. The holding area on the downstream side is always a bit awkward and sometimes boats who have committed to going in are not always easy to refuse and turn away.

 

[boatone]

Think we need to be more concerned about locks packing up, rather than how they're packed ! Both Romney and Sunbury having to rely on hand wind as of yesterday.

Also, re volunteers - they are just that, volunteers. There is no evidence that they would be prepared to be left to handle a lock on their own and I know many that would not wish to do so. Not the immediate fix that it might appear.

We get this sort of thread every year about now - high season, a few unexpected and overly long queues and it all kicks off. Even when there were adequate staff, Boveney and Bray could still be congestion points in high season.

By way of an alternative view, I cruised Windsor to Abingdon and back in late July early August, had almost no delays and only a few occasions where locks were on self service. The system is up to the wire but there does seem to be some effort going in to try and provide a service.

A few hundred grand of funding would make a huge difference - and probably available if enforcement was to ensure all monies that should be paid are paid - river user reps are working on it.

Have you responded to the consultation yet ? If not, why not ? Take the opportunity to communicate your frustrations there.

 

[oldgit]

And the reason for that goes a long way to explain why the current EA management of our waterways is so wasteful, inefficient and incompetent.

Feel sure the EA would welcome and value your obvious expertise in this area, believe you can apply for a volunteer job online........

 

[Old Crusty]

Precisely. The same sort of protectionist agreement that virtually wrecked British businesses in the 1970s.

Time for the EA to join the real world instead of trying to rely on a magic money tree that is no longer bearing fruit.

This is well outside this thread but ... it's much more complicated than that. Far be it for me to defend my former employer given I know where the weakness lies but there is inefficiency and incompetency in every organisation. The EA is the navigation authority and in that role it is content to manage the status quo within the boundaries of the legislation it works by (the TCAs, IWO 2010, etc). For example, treasury rules prevent it from stepping outside its lawful brief to improve funding by operating a commercial enterprise or make significant changes. That said, it does have a financial duty to fee paying customers like us and I'm not convinced that is being met never mind the poor enforcement of registration licences which annoys us all. Also, as fast as the EA raises additional funds, DEFRA removes the equivalent in grant in aid annually so there is no incentive for change.

Back to the volunteer thread - as B1 points out, while the greater use of volunteers might be welcome, few volunteers want the responsibility of managing a lock solo or with another volunteer. I know, I asked many of them that very question. It's a retirement role for most who have no wish to get tied up with any corporate policy/elf n safety nonsense. Most of them were disgruntled when told to wear safety shoes while volunteering just because EA operating policy requires them to be worn by paid staff. There are a few ex senior managers and military who would do more if they could so that's something to consider if only the EA and unions would discuss it unemotionally.

From a staff POV, greater use of volunteers could threaten their jobs so the staff and unions are resistant. Note that there was barely any union membership until the EA tried to sell off the lock houses ten years ago. Three successive hard-nosed, bullying and spiteful waterways managers have done nothing other than to further damage employee relations since the failed lock house sell off plan and most of the staff have joined the GMB as a result.

As for packing locks, every boat skipper is responsible for his/her vessel so if a lockie attempts something unsafe, you must shout to prevent an incident. As others have said, at busy times at locks like Temple, Bray and Boveney, 3 up, 3 down and turn the lock round in about 7 to 10 minutes is a better way to manage the queues. However, this is always at the duty keepers discretion when trying to balance water usage with safe passage.

 

[Cashbuyer]

“By way of an alternative view, I cruised Windsor to Abingdon and back in late July early August, had almost no delays and only a few occasions where locks were on self service. The system is up to the wire but there does seem to be some effort going in to try and provide a service. “

Only a few occasions- you were lucky. It’s a rarity now not to see a blue sign. Seeing a lock keeper on duty is now a bonus and I don’t think we see the same faces twice, which is a shame.
7 years ago we ran from Harleyford to Bray early season on yellow boards and the lockies rang ahead to notify the next lock we were out and about. Would that happen now? You’d like to think so, but I doubt it. And we saw the same faces on the return. And every lock was manned.

 

[djm]

Also, as fast as the EA raises additional funds, DEFRA removes the equivalent in grant in aid annually so there is no incentive for change.

Whilst not doubting your point, there appears to me to be a distinct lack of transparency over this issue. Is it not the EA board that decides how the total DEFRA grant-in-aid shall be allocated across its various responsibilities? I have never seen detailed and separate navigation accounts made available for proper scrutiny. Happy to be corrected.

 

[Old Crusty]

Whilst not doubting your point, there appears to me to be a distinct lack of transparency over this issue. Is it not the EA board that decides how the total DEFRA grant-in-aid shall be allocated across its various responsibilities? I have never seen detailed and separate navigation accounts made available for proper scrutiny. Happy to be corrected.

TNUF members on this forum may have some detail of the accounts, I've seen none for 3 years so am very out of date. I don't recall waterways accounts being published for public scrutiny except at TNUF meetings and quick overviews at RUGs.

 

[Time Out]

I still chuckle when I take a S48 through Bray which I have done a number of times. We clear 8 inches either side but they still insist on telling us which side to moor !

 

[TrueBlue]

I still chuckle when I take a S48 through Bray which I have done a number of times. We clear 8 inches either side but they still insist on telling us which side to moor !

As an aside I've seen wide boats locking with a bow line on one side and stern line on the other......