Oyster Yachts gone into administration

[SO40]

Personally I would rather see Oyster die a semi-honourable death than have the name live on under Beneteau, Asian or similar new ownership. That would be reminiscent of the C&C name being purchased and (ab)used by Fairport/Tartan.

Why is Tydeman still CEO/spokesperson for Oyster? Now that KPMG is in charge, what is his actual role, and how does he add any real value?

I have no idea. But be rest assured he will wiggle his way in again somehow. He is like wild bamboo. Once you have it in your garden, you never get rid of it (that was a joke, just in case people take it seriously).

 

[dom]

Personally I would rather see Oyster die a semi-honourable death than have the name live on under Beneteau, Asian or similar new ownership.

Quite so, nothing but ‘snail eaters’ and ‘yellow peril’.

S’cuse me, sir, but what century are we living in?

 

[E39mad]

Personally I would rather see Oyster die a semi-honourable death than have the name live on under Beneteau, Asian or similar new ownership. That would be reminiscent of the C&C name being purchased and (ab)used by Fairport/Tartan.

Why is Tydeman still CEO/spokesperson for Oyster? Now that KPMG is in charge, what is his actual role, and how does he add any real value?

It may be ironic that he used to be the head of Beneteau UK

 

[Scolly]

Well, Richemont the owner of luxury brands inc. Cartier, Dunhill, Giampiero Bodino, Jaeger-LeCoultre, Montblanc, Piaget, Vacheron Constantin, Van Cleef & Arpels, etc., has delivered a rock-stready 64% gross margin for years, translating into a net margin of c.19%.

Just today Nestle (obviously not lux, just a massive FMCG company) reported an underlying trading operating profit margin of 16.4%. I cld go on.

Either way if Oyster is to continue in any form it will almost need a seriously good shake-up in terms of design, manufacturing, accounting and PR. A new anti-smugness policy might also be in order.

I'm thinking a spot of anti smugness might not go amiss with some posters.

One point that confuses me is the size of the shed these 2 incompetent moulders use as the 825 is a tad bigger than most MPL boats built in the UK.

 

[Scolly]

Out of interest, did you go to the shed in the middle of nowhere at Ashmanhaugh and see the hull and deck moulded?

Please get your facts right

 

[lpdsn]

What would have done more reputational damage to Seagull: "The new [insert model here] has turned out to have a design flaw but we know how to fix it" or "The new [insert model here] is proving troublesome because of quality control issues at the foundry which makes all our cylinder blocks"?

At least with Seagull it would've been quite easy to put up a smokescreen.

 

[Tranona]

Since the discussion was about Oyster's publicised decision to seek redress from the moulders, that was an odd omission.

What would have done more reputational damage to Seagull: "The new [insert model here] has turned out to have a design flaw but we know how to fix it" or "The new [insert model here] is proving troublesome because of quality control issues at the foundry which makes all our cylinder blocks"?

As it happens the cylinder (and the foundry) were one of the two major problems with Seagull (along with the crankshafts).

Really cannot see your point. All Oyster is doing is making a claim against their subcontractor. They do not have a choice about its effect on their reputation as the fact is in the public domain and has been from (almost) the start.

Hence my comment about making a meal of it. You can't undo what has been done, nor once they had made the decision to make the claim, hide it.

I still see no evidence that there is any connection between this failure and any previous boat made by Oysters which are of different design and construction plus many were not even moulded by Bridgeland nor completed by the yard that completed the 825.

You seem to have little knowledge of how the build process happens at Oyster otherwise you might not make the insinuations that you have. Suggest you talk to Lozzer who will give you some direct insight as you seem to question everything that I say.

 

[Tranona]

I would imagine Beneteau would not be interested, but Hanse and Bavaria are known to take on yachting companies in trouble or that went under and a brand like Oyster would be super attractive ofcourse. I.e. Moody and Dehler went to Hanse. Dufour and Nauticat to Bavaria. Or maybe some Chinese or Korean billionaire. So new Oysters could soon be built in Germany and or Poland or even in the land of China!

Just a small correction for accuracy. Nauticat is still independent and family owned. Think you may be referring to Nautitec.

 

[Lozzer]

Personally I would rather see Oyster die a semi-honourable death than have the name live on under Beneteau, Asian or similar new ownership. That would be reminiscent of the C&C name being purchased and (ab)used by Fairport/Tartan.

That is a very comforting statement to the 400 people made redundant. You must have reflected long and hard before you posted it. Congratulations

 

[dunedin]

I still see no evidence that there is any connection between this failure and any previous boat made by Oysters which are of different design and construction plus many were not even moulded by Bridgeland nor completed by the yard that completed the 825.

You seem to have little knowledge of how the build process happens at Oyster otherwise you might not make the insinuations that you have. Suggest you talk to Lozzer who will give you some direct insight as you seem to question everything that I say.

I am sure any poster with inside knowledge or connections with Oyster will declare their interest before posting.

But without detailed insider knowledge, based upon the public domain information, it is hardly certain that the only issue was with the moulding activity. From the published reports and photos there are certainly questions that may need to be answered about the design safety margins, structural engineering safety margins, quality controls, construction checks etc. It is. All Oyster accountabilities. Something as fundamental as the bottom half of the hull and keel structure peeling off simply should not be possible with a single predictable failure point. Presumably there must be multiple failures.

It would be difficult at this stage without independently verified facts to prove that there is no impact on any other boat, unless all the other design, scantlings and quality control processes are different also. And one skipper at least suggested that the builders may say that there wasn’t an issue when in fact it turned out there was.
I would hope the other boats are OK, but perhaps more “case not proven” yet.

 

[Daydream believer]

As time passes, starting Oyster up in its old premises will be harder & soon become an obstacle to purchase, simply because the skilled tradesmen will have been snapped up by other companies. True the admin staff will, possibly, find it difficult to find jobs & be available; but admin staff are (realistically) overheads. It takes years to build up the sort of trade skills that are needed to build these yachts. When i had my joinery business I know that if a similar business had collapsed near me I would have been outside the gates like a shot, as availability of skilled staff was one of the biggest restrictions to increased turnover I faced.
Hence anyone stepping in will find that they may not be able to complete the orders they have in current production in any decent time frame. Then they may not have the capability to produce yachts in large enough quantity to be economic.

One would imagine that the moulds will go abroad, along with the brand name, to be swallowed up by a manufacturer with the resources to hand who can complete the vessel quickly. It would need considerable capabilities to keep the brand going & rebuild any trust. As a purchaser one might feel happier knowing there was the backing of an established builder. Just turning up with lots of cash is not really the answer long term & i hope nobody tries that, as it only leads to further heartache.
I have not seen the Oyster premises but if I go there in years to come it is, sadly, quite possible that i will see a housing estate.
I hope that i am wrong

 

[Lozzer]

Please get your facts right

Scolly people seldom like to deal in facts on this thread as with many others. Some people post interesting stuff but most want to speculate and talk twaddle.

 

[Lozzer]

I am sure any poster with inside knowledge or connections with Oyster will declare their interest before posting.

But without detailed insider knowledge, based upon the public domain information, it is hardly certain that the only issue was with the moulding activity. From the published reports and photos there are certainly questions that may need to be answered about the design safety margins, structural engineering safety margins, quality controls, construction checks etc. It is. All Oyster accountabilities. Something as fundamental as the bottom half of the hull and keel structure peeling off simply should not be possible with a single predictable failure point. Presumably there must be multiple failures.

It would be difficult at this stage without independently verified facts to prove that there is no impact on any other boat, unless all the other design, scantlings and quality control processes are different also. And one skipper at least suggested that the builders may say that there wasn’t an issue when in fact it turned out there was.
I would hope the other boats are OK, but perhaps more “case not proven” yet.

I think I declared my interest perhaps you chose not to read that. I base my knowledge on facts that I have seen with my own eyes rather than that through the eyes of a disgruntled owner or journalist trying to mags.

In our build we altered the interior which we were allowed to. It did put the balance of the yacht slightly out of norm so we needed to add some ballast, it is normal. I have a friend that skippers a San Lorenzo, they put 2 ton of ballast in the bow and it still runs very low in the stern.. Manufacturers produce yachts and most are not without fault in some shape or form.

As for safety margins our chainplates are from the 825, I would suggest that means it is over engineered.

Perhaps you can share your interaction with Oyster and also declare your interest in this matter. Do you have a yacht on order? Were you in the process of selecting a new shortlist and you were evaluating Oyster. Or are you a troll?

 

[[70521]]

That is a very comforting statement to the 400 people made redundant. You must have reflected long and hard before you posted it. Congratulations

It is always sad when teams are split up, but many of these people will be snapped up by other companies in the blink of an eye. OK they may need to take decisions to move for the work offered. It is the board that people should be pi$$ed off at as clearly they have not been able to managed the company when other boat manufactures are expanding again, Princess Yachts in Plymouth comes to mind (OK they are motor boats). Perhaps some of the Oyster craftspeople have already been snapped up by the Plymouth company?

 

[pvb]

Please get your facts right

I'm sorry, I'd assumed the 745 which Lozzer referred to was also made by Bridgland Moulders in Norfolk.

 

[dom]

Seems like a lot of people on here are enjoying the situation. I wonder how much is jealousy.

Lozzer, apologies for just picking a single point out of an entirely sensible post. But as you appear to be intimately involved with this brand...

...can I ask why this jealousy question keeps coming up whenever Oyster is mentioned?

 

[dom]

Perhaps some of the Oyster craftspeople have already been snapped up by the Plymouth company?

When Moody went under (I think it was them), the then-new Rolls Royce factory in Chichester hired many of the redundant craftsmen, especially with experience in woodwork and leather. R-R is over the moon with their skills!

 

[Angele]

Why is Tydeman still CEO/spokesperson for Oyster? Now that KPMG is in charge, what is his actual role, and how does he add any real value?

I have no idea. But be rest assured he will wiggle his way in again somehow.

I have said it before, but I will say it again. So far as I am aware, Oyster Marine Limited (the operating business) is NOT in administration/liquidation. Only its holding company.

As a director of Oyster Marine Limited, there is absolutely no reason why Mr Tydeman would not continue to speak for that business. (Although it is somewhat blurry as to why Mr Tydeman would know how many expressions of interest had been made to the administrators of the holding company, of which he was also a director).

And before anyone says "but the operating company has stopped production" [thereby implying it too must be bust] that decision appears to have been taken by the directors, not by any administrator, with the company still apparently solvent. (It did have £6m in the bank at the end of 2016 - the latest available accounts. Not enough to pay a £7+m claim, but if that claim has not yet materialised for payment, it ain't bust).

 

[lw395]

As it happens the cylinder (and the foundry) were one of the two major problems with Seagull (along with the crankshafts).
......

Basically, all the metal bits ranged from poor to hopeless. Some of the bakelite was OK?

 

[Lozzer]

It is always sad when teams are split up, but many of these people will be snapped up by other companies in the blink of an eye. OK they may need to take decisions to move for the work offered. It is the board that people should be pi$$ed off at as clearly they have not been able to managed the company when other boat manufactures are expanding again, Princess Yachts in Plymouth comes to mind (OK they are motor boats). Perhaps some of the Oyster craftspeople have already been snapped up by the Plymouth company?

Princess has not had a blessed career. I think if you look back over the years they have made people redundant on and off many times. They were also rescued by LVMH.

I worked for them a number of years ago and also skippered one of there reasonable sized yachts. The products are chalk and cheese I can assure you. Just look at the build times and you will appreciate what I am saying. The yacht I skippered had such a bad vibration at top speed it was uncomfortable. When you came back in from a day out in bad weather you had to hoover up all the dust where the bulkheads had rubbed together.

I hope that this is resolved quickly and any new owner encourages the staff back by offering some sort of partnership like John Lewis. This could be based on profitability. I think you will find that would put the cat amongst the pigeons.