Oyster Yachts gone into administration

[pvb]

It's not ever so relevant to the factory build issues, as it was an aftermarket bodge.

I don't think so. The lead (that's what it is supposedly) was added by Oyster to counterbalance the extended stern. If you read the various comments by the Polina Star's skipper, he reveals that he discovered a sealed compartment in the bow which wasn't on the yacht's drawings, and an Oyster technician eventually told him they'd put a ton of lead in there to balance the boat.

 

[lw395]

Many of the "quality" boats use a high degree of automation in their manufacture and much of the appearance of "quality" comes from the materials used rather than the loving application of shipwright skills.

The big savings for the volume manufacturers is in the fast curing of hull mouldings and the construction of interior modules outside the boat, complete with all hardware, wiring and plumbing ready to be dropped into the cured hull. The use of CAD allows them to plan every bit of the installation in advance so that it all fits together easily and reliably.

You can see the result if you look closely at the finished product. My Bavaria 33 took a week to assemble from moulding the hull to a complete boat, although no doubt some of the subassemblies were made beforehand. It was delivered with zero defects and everything worked - and is still working (except a couple of software glitches with the Garmin gear). Fit and finish is excellent although this is partly achieved by matching up smaller components rather than trying to blend together in the traditional way. So, quality in terms of fitness for purpose and value for money at half the price of an equivalent size and equipped HR.

The challenge for the high cost brands is to use automation to improve accuracy and reduce time on the bits that are not seen and devote time and effort to the things that persuade the buyer to pay the premium price.

Quality is a complicated thing these days.
In an industrial sense, it's got more to do with making every unit the same than making better units.
But a lot to do with making sure things are built to the design and that the process is correct.
On the Cheeki Rafiki threads, there was a lot of information about how Beneteau proved and monitored their process for sticking a grid floor assembly into a hull moulding.
Some of the things I've designed, pre-production runs have been used to check that the build process is working properly.
One thing I designed part of, a couple of hundred units were put down an assembly line, then measured, analysed, tested, x-rayed, sliced up and lots of other tests. We then tweaked the design slightly to get higher confidence of zero defects. Then made a thousand units and tested those before pushing the button for production. But still every unit gets inspected and tested. When you've sold a million units without too many returns, the design is OK.

'Quality' in the bespoke suit/handmade furniture/fine wine sense is more of a dark art.

I've only sailed a couple of HR's one of them was when a certain sailing school had a couple of them in Dartmouth. It wasn't until we were looking at the ships papers that I realised the boat was over ten years old, not about 2. Compare with various sailing school Bavarias I've seen....
Hardly fair, but I can understand people buying HR if their bank balance allows.

 

[lw395]

I don't think so. The lead (that's what it is supposedly) was added by Oyster to counterbalance the extended stern. If you read the various comments by the Polina Star's skipper, he reveals that he discovered a sealed compartment in the bow which wasn't on the yacht's drawings, and an Oyster technician eventually told him they'd put a ton of lead in there to balance the boat.

After a RIB garage had been added to the boat at some point between moulding and sinking?
Blocks of lead cemented in is almost high class, compered to say steel punchings and a barrel of resin.

 

[pvb]

After a RIB garage had been added to the boat at some point between moulding and sinking?
Blocks of lead cemented in is almost high class, compered to say steel punchings and a barrel of resin.

Alessio Cannoni, the full-time captain of the Polina Star III, said that "the boat was not extended, she was designed and built by Oyster exactly as you can see in the pictures". See link.

http://wavetrain.net/news-a-views/7...ilure-what-really-happened-to-polina-star-iii

 

[lw395]

Alessio Cannoni, the full-time captain of the Polina Star III, said that "the boat was not extended, she was designed and built by Oyster exactly as you can see in the pictures". See link.

http://wavetrain.net/news-a-views/7...ilure-what-really-happened-to-polina-star-iii

It seems the garage was added between moulding the bare hull and completion?
At any rate, too late in the process to design the keel etc around the new weight distribution.
Not really correct to say it was designed exactly as it ended up.
But it's not the RIB garage or the bow ballast that sank the yacht.

 

[dunedin]

It seems the garage was added between moulding the bare hull and completion?
At any rate, too late in the process to design the keel etc around the new weight distribution.
Not really correct to say it was designed exactly as it ended up.
But it's not the RIB garage or the bow ballast that sank the yacht.

But it was Oyster fitted to an Oyster, pre handover - so not an “aftermarket bodge” as you describe it in your post, but, to use your own term, an Oyster “bodge”. Not one which sank the ship, but clearly surprised the skipper

 

[pvb]

I've just noticed that "Maegan", the third Oyster 825, owned by Wim de Pundert (majority partner at HTP Investments, Oyster's owner) is for sale for only £4 million.

 

[dunedin]

I've just noticed that "Maegan", the third Oyster 825, owned by Wim de Pundert (majority partner at HTP Investments, Oyster's owner) is for sale for only £4 million.

Which could fit with a few potential scenarios
(a) HTP Investments itself getting a bit short in the cash flow department; and/or
(b) the investor’s love affair with Oyster fading.
Or a lot of other scenarios, including had been planning an upgrade to a bigger one at cost. Time will tell.

 

[ip485]

However, the use of automation and robotics doesn't necessarily imply volume building - Gunboat will build one or two 68's a year. These are not inexpensive yachts, and the target audience can easily afford an Oyster or any other yacht of similar size

I agree. I agree even more so when it comes to the layup etc. However, with regard to the parts people actually see, it seems more difficult to achieve. Perhaps this is partly because using solid teak, good quality leathers etc adapts better to the realms of craftsmen. I watched an intriguing progam filmed at Rolls in Chichester following the selection, cutting and incorporation of leather in their cars. "Automation" brought some remarkable techniques to the process (using computer scans for example to work out how to cut the leather into pieces, while avoiding the natural imperfections in the hide and yet getting the most use out of the hide) but it was also interesting how much of the process was still labour and craftmanship intensive. A kitchen manufacturer I know well produce all their doors on a very costly machine that does all the cutting, profiling etc., but the underlying material is a wood composite - why, well they say it would be substantially more difficult to use "real" wood.

Even the largest yacht manufacturers are building in low volume. My IP is from a low volume manufacturer - it certainly isnt high tec. and it certainly doesnt rely on extensive automation. However, I think it exudes quality. A lot of the teak is solid wood, not vener, nor laminates. The layout isnt core and the stringers are three times as thick as on most production yachts. It doesnt creek and groan even in a F7, and all the doors still line up and havent moved and warped, whereas I have seen more than a few volume boats that started out with everything perfectly aligned but didnt end up that way. I am not suggesting that it isnt possible, but that it is rarely achieved perhaps because you can cut anything very accurately with the correct automation but if the underlying materials are not fit for purpose it will inevitably all move and warp a few years later.

 

[dunedin]

I've just noticed that "Maegan", the third Oyster 825, owned by Wim de Pundert (majority partner at HTP Investments, Oyster's owner) is for sale for only £4 million.

One does have to wonder slightly about the first line of the advert listing by Oyster Brokerage ....”Meagan is Hull number 3 of the incredibly successful 825 built by Oyster”.
I wonder what the owner of the other hull numbers thought of that - one would think it wasn’t that incredibly successful to sink one of the first four. Clearly this boat will have beeen checked very carefully, but the wording seems disrespectful by a large degree to the impacted Oyster 825 customer(s)

 

[lw395]

But it was Oyster fitted to an Oyster, pre handover - so not an “aftermarket bodge” as you describe it in your post, but, to use your own term, an Oyster “bodge”. Not one which sank the ship, but clearly surprised the skipper

Tales from the boatyards include legends of all sorts of things being laminated in, many of which would surprise the skipper.

 

[Max Campbell]

Not sure how you figure out 'more sky', is the rest of the country underground?

No trees and flat land.

 

[lw395]

One does have to wonder slightly about the first line of the advert listing by Oyster Brokerage ....”Meagan is Hull number 3 of the incredibly successful 825 built by Oyster”.
I wonder what the owner of the other hull numbers thought of that - one would think it wasn’t that incredibly successful to sink one of the first four. Clearly this boat will have beeen checked very carefully, but the wording seems disrespectful by a large degree to the impacted Oyster 825 customer(s)

The success is indeed incredible.
Translated maybe?

I guess it depends on how you measure 'success'.

 

[Blue Sunray]

No trees and flat land.

:encouragement:

Do keep up.

 

[SO40]

The success is indeed incredible.
Translated maybe?

I guess it depends on how you measure 'success'.

The succes probably refers to the 2015 result at the Superyacht races: http://www.quotenet.nl/Nieuws/Knap-...aculair-debuut-op-Palma-Superyacht-Cup-156149

It´s champagne regatta sailing, nothing to do with the real thing. Eventhough they like to think so. I am afraid I have been part of this superyacht event once......good fun, great food, loadsabooz....but I fail to understand they even call it a regatta.

 

[Time Out]

Which could fit with a few potential scenarios
(a) HTP Investments itself getting a bit short in the cash flow department; and/or
(b) the investor’s love affair with Oyster fading.
Or a lot of other scenarios, including had been planning an upgrade to a bigger one at cost. Time will tell.

Whichever way you look at it now is not the time to bring an Oyster 825 to market...

 

[E39mad]

True. As with Northshore/Southerly, Fairline and GT Yachts, the high prices reflect inefficiencies in manufacture more than quality in the finished product. A new build Aston-Martin DB4 at £1.5m is not in any sense a better car than a DB11 at a tenth of the price; it just costs an awful lot more to make.

I believe the issue with Northshore was more the rapid expansion of the product line and the cost of designing and tooling larger and larger yachts all of which need sales and time before you get a return.

Good luck to Oyster - I suspect the lawsuit against them will not have helped and this maybe just a way of securing the future without having that large potential liability hanging over them. Then again it could be a culmination of things.

 

[SO40]

I believe the issue with Northshore was more the rapid expansion of the product line and the cost of designing and tooling larger and larger yachts all of which need sales and time before you get a return.

Good luck to Oyster - I suspect the lawsuit against them will not have helped and this maybe just a way of securing the future without having that large potential liability hanging over them. Then again it could be a culmination of things.

All very well you saying "just a way of securing the future without having that large potential liability hanging over them". But I hope you realise the crew of PS III could have potentially lost their lives here. This is not just some unfortunate accident with a happy ending because there were no fatalities. I am pretty sure that if lives had been lost with the sinking of PS III, matters would be VERY different for Oyster at the time. They basically sort of got away with it , but that doesn´t make it any less of a disaster.

 

[pvb]

All very well you saying "just a way of securing the future without having that large potential liability hanging over them". But I hope you realise the crew of PS III could have potentially lost their lives here. This is not just some unfortunate accident with a happy ending because there were no fatalities. I am pretty sure that if lives had been lost with the sinking of PS III, matters would be VERY different for Oyster at the time. They basically sort of got away with it , but that doesn´t make it any less of a disaster.

Just think what would have happened if the keel had dropped off 24 hours earlier. In all probability, no survivors. And, in all probability, no wreckage to show how badly the thing had been built. It would just have been a mysterious loss.

 

[lw395]

Just think what would have happened if the keel had dropped off 24 hours earlier. In all probability, no survivors. And, in all probability, no wreckage to show how badly the thing had been built. It would just have been a mysterious loss.

That's a gross leap of assumptions. It's quite probable that it would have taken some time to sink, sufficient to use a liferaft and epirb.