Oyster Yachts gone into administration

[EBunting]

In the article linked to there was specific reference to this, and the money they might have lost over this - perhaps it is also future losses due to litigation.
I must say at the time I was very shocked by their secretive approach to this, even more shocked by the ludicrously thin scantlings of the keel box when the story was opened up by a Russian press journalist (the British press including YM and YW seemed to be scared to print anything) and finally by the way they tried at first to blame the owner and skipper for this catastrophic and near fatal failure. I am hardly in the market for a new Oyster, but i suddenly moved my views of Oyster to similar to (old) Southerly after their two Phoenix insolvency and reincarnations, dumping on their suppliers twice.

Still very sad for the workforce and the minimal British boat construction industry

 

[EBunting]

For the record: at least the bit about YW being ‘scared to print’ anything is total rot. We had a comprehensive 10-page report in June [correction: May] 2016, totally independent, including construction diagrams and explanation and interview with the skipper. It was one of the largest single pieces of investigative work the title has ever undertaken: over two months’ worth by a yacht designer working solely for us on examining evidence, many weeks of my time on reporting, interviewing and meetings alongside this, and some very heavy lifting legal work before publication. But you did have to buy the magazine to read it. - Elaine

 

[Time Out]

Let me put the kettle on and pull up a chair...

 

[pvb]

For the record: at least the bit about YW being ‘scared to print’ anything is total rot. We had an comprehensive 10-page report in June 2016, totally independent, including construction diagrams and explanation and interview with the skipper. It was one of the largest single piece of investigative work the title has ever undertaken: over two months’ worth by a yacht designer working solely for us on examining evidence, many weeks of my time on reporting, interviewing and meetings alongside this, and some very heavy lifting legal work before publication. But you did have to buy the magazine to read it. - Elaine

In case people are tempted to look out their old magazine, wasn't it actually in the May 2016 issue?

 

[dom]

An interesting little snippet is that the third Oyster 825 (Polina Star III was the second) is owned by Wim de Pundert, the majority owner of HTP Investments, the private equity company which owns Oyster. His boat was apparently treated to extensive remedial work to strengthen the keel attachment area before the date of Polina Star's loss. This apparently followed concerns expressed previously about Polina Star's keel security when it was lifted out in the Caribbean. It may be that facts are emerging now about the design and construction of the 825s which annoyed Mr Pundert sufficiently to pull the plug on what was, after all, a very small company in his terms.

Intriguing thought. Slipstreaming lw395's 'overtaken by events' hypothesis; Oyster's original claim that the problem was confined to a single boat is certainly under pressure and nobody knows if a gremlin has surfaced elsewhere in the business.

Even if there is a grain of truth in pvb's and lw's musings; anyone familiar with this industry would wonder if some sort of pre-pack has been floated and declined. These situations can all too easily end up in a Mexican standoff where the investment firm is forced to demonstrate that it would rather destroy its own investment than fold its hand and throw more cash into what may be an abyss.

Tranona correctly suggests that the mechanics of cashflow projections are only as good as the underlying assumptions and some combinations are therefore simply too dangerous to countenance. A hypothetical example of a red light might be: a commercially tricky market, material outstanding litigation, a management team which one doesn't quite trust, and intransigent banks/other creditors.

All generic musings of course.

 

[Time Out]

http://www.superyachtnews.com/business/oyster-yachts-

 

[EBunting]

Yes it was thanks. Corrected.
I can’t remember how to post images on vbulletin but if someone would like to tell me I’ll grab the pages and post

 

[dunedin]

For the record: at least the bit about YW being ‘scared to print’ anything is total rot. We had a comprehensive 10-page report in June [correction: May] 2016, totally independent, including construction diagrams and explanation and interview with the skipper. It was one of the largest single pieces of investigative work the title has ever undertaken: over two months’ worth by a yacht designer working solely for us on examining evidence, many weeks of my time on reporting, interviewing and meetings alongside this, and some very heavy lifting legal work before publication. But you did have to buy the magazine to read it. - Elaine

I am afraid that on this one I disagree. A belated article in May 2016 for an incident that occurred in July 2015.
This remains perhaps the most catastrophic structural / keel failure in any cruising yacht (as opposed to racer), so extremely topical to your readers. As a subscriber to both YM and YW I, amongst many others, was forced to read up about this from many non U.K. sources which were much more informative immediately ther after and during the remainder of 2015.

How many column inches did this hugely significant capsize get between July 2015 and April 2016?

For those who missed at the time, the photographs here are very informative http://wavetrain.net/news-a-views/7...ilure-what-really-happened-to-polina-star-iii

 

[Time Out]

I am afraid that on this one I disagree. A belated article in May 2016 for an incident that occurred in July 2015.
This remains perhaps the most catastrophic structural / keel failure in any cruising yacht (as opposed to racer), so extremely topical to your readers. As a subscriber to both YM and YW I, amongst many others, was forced to read up about this from many non U.K. sources which were much more informative immediately ther after and during the remainder of 2015.

How many column inches did this hugely significant capsize get between July 2015 and April 2016?

For those who missed at the time, the photographs here are very informative http://wavetrain.net/news-a-views/7...ilure-what-really-happened-to-polina-star-iii

Informative or accurate?

 

[dunedin]

Informative or accurate?

So what’s is the accurate answer on YM and YW column inches on this between July 205 and April 2016.

I read the YM and YW articles and don’t think there was much different which suggested anything wrong with the analysis done much earlier by the overseas (Russsian?) investigators, or the photographs. If there is pray tell.

 

[Boat2016]

I am afraid that on this one I disagree. A belated article in May 2016 for an incident that occurred in July 2015.
This remains perhaps the most catastrophic structural / keel failure in any cruising yacht (as opposed to racer), so extremely topical to your readers. As a subscriber to both YM and YW I, amongst many others, was forced to read up about this from many non U.K. sources which were much more informative immediately ther after and during the remainder of 2015.

How many column inches did this hugely significant capsize get between July 2015 and April 2016?

For those who missed at the time, the photographs here are very informative http://wavetrain.net/news-a-views/7...ilure-what-really-happened-to-polina-star-iii

I know you all like a bit of gossip but these kind of serious cases need sensitivity aswell so the fact that it took a few months to gather the info before it was discussed in the open is only right, you can imagine what would happen if caught publishing hear say over the truth because of a hurry to get this story in the mag, sounds like it was done all above board with no need for any court action.

 

[Time Out]

So what’s is the accurate answer on YM and YW column inches on this between July 205 and April 2016.

I read the YM and YW articles and don’t think there was much different which suggested anything wrong with the analysis done much earlier by the overseas (Russsian?) investigators, or the photographs. If there is pray tell.

As Elaine has stated she will post the findings.

Oh but that’s investigative journalism... and that’s not allowed is it.

 

[JumbleDuck]

http://www.superyachtnews.com/business/oyster-yachts-

"No other companies within the group will form part of this administration. Oyster Marine Holdings will retain the intellectual property to all the technical drawings and moulds used in the production of the yacht in the Oyster range."

Ah, right, sounds as if it's just another Northshore-style ploy to dump on the suppliers. Any bets on how long till the phoenix goes bust?

 

[Happyboating]

I’ve only just realised this thread had been moved - thought it had been deleted for some reason! Anyhow, here’s the latest report from Yachting Monthly:

http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/news...923.365648381.1517034229-543062002.1462093331

As Jumble Duck has already reported, in a statement KPMG Restructuring said no other companies within the Oyster Group Form part of this particular administration. This includes Oyster Marine, Oyster Brokerage and Oyster Palma.

 

[EBunting]

Yeah but they were speculation. A bit like all this.

 

[lpdsn]

I am afraid that on this one I disagree. A belated article in May 2016 for an incident that occurred in July 2015.

About the same time frame as a MAIB report. If it was a thorough piece of investigative journalism support by a naval architect it doesn't seem unreasonably long.

 

[EBunting]

About the same time frame as a MAIB report. If it was a thorough piece of investigative journalism support by a naval architect it doesn't seem unreasonably long.

Thank you very much. There were many reasons why this could not be published earlier, including obtaining the necessary structural info and evidence. Anyway, the original point was that we were ‘scared to publish’ and I hope you will note that, despite Oyster being one of YW’s biggest advertisers, this was not the case.
I hope that Oyster can emerge again from this crisis, but once again the full story could emerge slowly, and will only be pieced together with access to the complete facts. Thanks all - I have learned a lot today from the financial insights here - Elaine

 

[dunedin]

Thank you very much. There were many reasons why this could not be published earlier, including obtaining the necessary structural info and evidence. Anyway, the original point was that we were ‘scared to publish’ and I hope you will note that, despite Oyster being one of YW’s biggest advertisers, this was not the case.
I hope that Oyster can emerge again from this crisis, but once again the full story could emerge slowly, and will only be pieced together with access to the complete facts. Thanks all - I have learned a lot today from the financial insights here - Elaine

The 9 page investigative article was in May 2016 in Yachting World. Good informative article, which shared many of the same pictures, skipper timeline and structural views as the German and Russian press articles from 2015. Article ended with an Oyster advert as the next page, presumably to show both sides?
Not clear if any earlier News reporting of the incident (facts, rather than causes and therefore no legal issues)

As this is YM Scuttlebutt I looked to see if could find any column inches in Yachting Monthly. I vaguely thought there might have been a tiny reference, but from a quick scan (and in the absence of access to a digital index) I didn’t immediately find any reference to this in the News section of Yachting Monthly in the year from the accident.
Lots of other News items on other sinking sands standings but apparently silent on Polina Star. Happy to be proven wrong and pointed to the references, as was just a quick scan. Please inform us with the edition and page references.

I still maintain it was a very strange silence even regarding the simple News fact that it had happened. If I recall correctly, Kieran eventually expressed a view that a keel failure and capsize of an Oyster sailing wasn’t relevant to Yachting Monthly readers as anything of that size was entirely YW territory (meanwhile doing other news articles on big sailing cruisers).

 

[Time Out]

The 9 page investigative article was in May 2016 in Yachting World. Good informative article, which shared many of the same pictures, skipper timeline and structural views as the German and Russian press articles from 2015. Article ended with an Oyster advert as the next page, presumably to show both sides?
Not clear if any earlier News reporting of the incident (facts, rather than causes and therefore no legal issues)

As this is YM Scuttlebutt I looked to see if could find any column inches in Yachting Monthly. I vaguely thought there might have been a tiny reference, but from a quick scan (and in the absence of access to a digital index) I didn’t immediately find any reference to this in the News section of Yachting Monthly in the year from the accident.
Lots of other News items on other sinking sands standings but apparently silent on Polina Star. Happy to be proven wrong and pointed to the references, as was just a quick scan. Please inform us with the edition and page references.

I still maintain it was a very strange silence even regarding the simple News fact that it had happened. If I recall correctly, Kieran eventually expressed a view that a keel failure and capsize of an Oyster sailing wasn’t relevant to Yachting Monthly readers as anything of that size was entirely YW territory (meanwhile doing other news articles on big sailing cruisers).

Do you watch the X Files ?

 

[Seven Spades]

I am with Elaine on this. I think that they did a sterling job. They waited for facts and then reported them in detail. Uninformed speculation is best left to forums not the press.