Oyster Yachts gone into administration

[Zing]

Ironically the only person who seems to have done it the other way round (small fortune to large) is Oyster's founder.

I would argue he really made most of his fortune from the madness of the credit bubble prior to the economic crisis. It was that flood of easy credit that allowed the bidders for his company to overbid its value by several times. He still would have done fine at a third of what he got though. He was one of the very few to do really well.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I would argue he really made most of his fortune from the madness of the credit bubble prior to the economic crisis. It was that flood of easy credit that allowed the bidders for his company to overbid its value by several times.

Yes, it doesn't seem to have been profits which made him rich. But see also Bain Capital, who lost a cool billion on Bavaria at about the same time.

 

[Tranona]

Yes, it doesn't seem to have been profits which made him rich. But see also Bain Capital, who lost a cool billion on Bavaria at about the same time.

And the family who started Bavaria did well out of it when they sold.

 

[SO40]

I'm sure no one goes out of their way to hurt their business and probably the management were doing the best with what they knew and resources made available which probably will never be known. The boats were still selling so they must have been doing something right.

Everybody and everything seems to be a target for criticism these days and I wish the new owners and staff , and former management the best of luck . They will certainly need it.

I beg to differ. In general terms you may be correct, but in this case, a boat was sent across the Atlantic by Oyster as "being safe", after a stream of issues with the boat as well as independent surveyor reports stating problems. The keel came off however and luckily (for Oyster) no one got hurt.
Now, if you call that "trying to do there best".....I think it is near enough criminal what happened here.
So these people deserve to be kicked, mocked and put to shame.

 

[Okeanos]

Very, very true!

 

[Resolution]

I beg to differ. In general terms you may be correct, but in this case, a boat was sent across the Atlantic by Oyster as "being safe", after a stream of issues with the boat as well as independent surveyor reports stating problems. The keel came off however and luckily (for Oyster) no one got hurt.
Now, if you call that "trying to do there best".....I think it is near enough criminal what happened here.
So these people deserve to be kicked, mocked and put to shame.

Without knowing BOTH SIDES of the communications between the customer and the company, and all their respective advisers, it is perhaps a little extreme to comment like this. Or do you know the whole story??

 

[SO40]

I think there is enough info available now about this whole PSIII drama. The attitude of the management of Oyster backfired on them big time. Or didn't you get that Resolution?

 

[JumbleDuck]

And the family who started Bavaria did well out of it when they sold.

Yes and in a curiously non-Germanic way. German businesses tend to be built up to stay in the family, so long-term sustainability is what matter, whereas British companies are built up to be flogged off to some sucker as soon as possible.

 

[Bajansailor]

Yes and in a curiously non-Germanic way. German businesses tend to be built up to stay in the family, so long-term sustainability is what matter, whereas British companies are built up to be flogged off to some sucker as soon as possible.

Perhaps one of the best examples of this is the Shipbuilder Meyer Werft which was started up in 1795 and it is still family controlled.

http://www.meyerwerft.de/en/meyerwerft_de/index.jsp

A concise history here -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meyer_Werft

 

[Daydream believer]

I would argue he really made most of his fortune from the madness of the credit bubble prior to the economic crisis. It was that flood of easy credit that allowed the bidders for his company to overbid its value by several times. He still would have done fine at a third of what he got though. He was one of the very few to do really well.

Did he not build & manage the business through the VAT crisis that killed off some of our companies? I believe he may have. Or did he start up after that? If he handled the VAT thing ( when an increase in VAT killed the consumer market on high end products for a while) then I would not call that a credit bubble.
However, bubble or not, the main thing is that he took advantage of it whilst it was there - & that is good management




As an aside ===I commented to a businessman that I thought that they had won a "Queen's award to industry"- His comment was " Ah well won't be long before they are in trouble then !!"

 

[Daydream believer]

Yes and in a curiously non-Germanic way. German businesses tend to be built up to stay in the family, so long-term sustainability is what matter, whereas British companies are built up to be flogged off to some sucker as soon as possible.

Possibly that is partly due to a different culture within the family model. Firstly there is a limit to the extent that most founders can go with their companies. Ok you have the Zuckermans but generally the founder will reach a limit of his ability & then the company becomes stifled . At this point, if no one has been bought in to take the unit on further it will have to be sold. Take Hanse yachts. The founder admits that he had reached a limit & only by selling to a well financed company with long term interests could the company be advanced further.
It may be that many UK entrepreneurs feel the same. Some do not like handing the reins to others whilst they watch & would prefer to sell altogether

The alternative is to hand the company to family & if they have the interest they may have had the training to carry it through. It may be that not having founded the firm they find it easier to allow others to help lead. I suspect that UK culture is not one where the sons( & daughters) actually want the hassle. Why not take the spoils handed down. Invest them & live the good life. Can you blame them? We are a country more used to investment than manufacture so it comes easier to them.

It may be that German culture is different & families feel a greater responsibility to their elders to carry on where they left off.

I am not so sure that, in the long term, families are the right model to run companies- in the UK at least. I can think of many of very old established family run companies that have now died a death. Not due to sell offs as such but due to losses.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Perhaps one of the best examples of this is the Shipbuilder Meyer Werft which was started up in 1795 and it is still family controlled.

Coo. BMW is also still family-controlled, although the Quandts own a little under 50% of the company.

Pub quiz factoid: Magda Goebbels' first husband was Harald Quandt, founder of the BMW industrial empire.

 

[AndrewfromFal]

Did he not build & manage the business through the VAT crisis that killed off some of our companies? I believe he may have. Or did he start up after that? If he handled the VAT thing ( when an increase in VAT killed the consumer market on high end products for a while) then I would not call that a credit bubble.
However, bubble or not, the main thing is that he took advantage of it whilst it was there - & that is good management




As an aside ===I commented to a businessman that I thought that they had won a "Queen's award to industry"- His comment was " Ah well won't be long before they are in trouble then !!"

Aside from the fact the company outlasted virtually every other boatbuilder in the U.K. in maintaining it's solvency under his leadership; they must have thrown off a fair amount of cash over the years to enable it to expand and swallow up Fox's, SYS and the sailmaker (Gowan?) that were part of the group; not to mention to pay for his own yachting activities and ever increasing collection of boats.

 

[davidej]

Coo. BMW is also still family-controlled, although the Quandts own a little under 50% of the company.

Pub quiz factoid: Magda Goebbels' first husband was Harald Quandt, founder of the BMW industrial empire.

I have a friend who worked for BMW. He tod me it was full of ex-SS soldiers. I now understand why!

 

[Daydream believer]

Aside from the fact the company outlasted virtually every other boatbuilder in the U.K. in maintaining it's solvency under his leadership; they must have thrown off a fair amount of cash over the years to enable it to expand and swallow up Fox's, SYS and the sailmaker (Gowan?) that were part of the group; not to mention to pay for his own yachting activities and ever increasing collection of boats.

He sold the sailmaker business ( did he brand it as Ocean sails?) to Dolphin because he could not make it pay

 

[Okeanos]

I have a friend who worked for BMW. He tod me it was full of ex-SS soldiers. I now understand why!

Dear Davidej, what horrible stuff you are telling! Your SS-soldiers are today about 95 years old and 20 years ago 75 years!
We Germans are very diligent, but not so much diligent! The best greetings from Germany.

 

[auditdata]

Dear Davidej, what horrible stuff you are telling! Your SS-soldiers are today about 95 years old and 20 years ago 75 years!
We Germans are very diligent, but not so much diligent! The best greetings from Germany.

+1

 

[newtothis]

Dear Davidej, what horrible stuff you are telling! Your SS-soldiers are today about 95 years old and 20 years ago 75 years!
We Germans are very diligent, but not so much diligent! The best greetings from Germany.

He doesn't say how old the person telling him was, or when it was told. Davidj's SS soldiers could well have been there in the 1950s or 60s when his friend was working there, for example.
A relative of mine told me about when he heard about those weird American brothers inventing powered flight when he was 13. It was my grandfather, born in 1890, who told me a couple of years before he died in 1978.

 

[Tranona]

He doesn't say how old the person telling him was, or when it was told. Davidj's SS soldiers could well have been there in the 1950s or 60s when his friend was working there, for example.

Exactly. There is a tendency to only see things with today's eyes rather than in the context of the times. Members of the armed forces (in all countries) merged back into society, many with 40 years or more of working life ahead of them, so it was only in the 1990s that they faded from the workforce.

My grand daughter is studying the Cold War for GCSE history and just been to Berlin for fieldwork about the fall of the Wall - current affairs for some of us!

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

He sold the sailmaker business ( did he brand it as Ocean sails?) to Dolphin because he could not make it pay

Good business move! If you can’t make a subsidiary profitable, sell it on. More generally steady development with attention to quality and detail built the brand until the founder sold it. Therefore 10 years ago I had no hesitation in buying a 1983/4 Heritage 37 and have not been disappointed. Apart from routine maintenance I have had no need to have had any work done. During the last ownership the development appeared too frenetic. Very difficult to keep control of costs and quality at the same time, especially with so many model changes.