Overtaking

[Wansworth]

This summer I was at the helm of my 40 year old vega in Chichester harbour .What is novel about that was I was overtaking another yacht.Unfortunatly I ended up to leeward and between the mud and the yacht I had gained on.This lead to me runnning aground whilst the other yacht seemed oblivious to my plight although it seems suspicious looking back that he tuened on his engine and buggerd off.Still it was a rising tide and we son got off.This is a sort of cautionary tale .Having never had a boat that overtook other boats(from way behaind) it pays to look ahead to posible problems.I couldnt tack without probably hitting the other yacht broadside ,he was on starboard.Anorher obaervation is.....avoid if posible sailing at the week end in chichester harbour.

 

[sailorman]

This summer I was at the helm of my 40 year old vega in Chichester harbour .What is novel about that was I was overtaking another yacht.Unfortunatly I ended up to leeward and between the mud and the yacht I had gained on.This lead to me runnning aground whilst the other yacht seemed oblivious to my plight although it seems suspicious looking back that he tuened on his engine and buggerd off.Still it was a rising tide and we son got off.This is a sort of cautionary tale .Having never had a boat that overtook other boats(from way behaind) it pays to look ahead to posible problems.I couldnt tack without probably hitting the other yacht broadside ,he was on starboard.Anorher obaervation is.....avoid if posible sailing at the week end in chichester harbour.

was the skipper donning a tilley hat

 

[Twister_Ken]

You are in your rights to ask him for "water to tack" if you need to avoid an obstruction.

 

[prv]

It's easy to forget, but you could always spill wind to slow down a bit, and then tack across his stern.

Pete

 

[Richard10002]

Stop and Slow Down are two actions that are often forgotten by boaters in the heat of a moment.

You can always stop, or slow down, and let the danger pass you by.

 

[Wansworth]

In my defense I would say that the withies dont give a true picture of th e mud!,still my er fault.Another Little hiccup in what was the first real sail in the boat was the sheets kept on jamming on the stays when going about(since remided).Next time I see we are in a taking duel,although involuntary I will slow down and let the other boat get clear;although now I hope I have improved the sheet snaarling up on the stays are tacking might be a bit slicker!(

 

[Wansworth]

was the skipper donning a tilley hat

that detail escaped me!

 

[Bosun Higgs]

You are in your rights to ask him for "water to tack" if you need to avoid an obstruction.

If you were racing, undoubtedly so. But then if you were racing you wouldnt try to overtake in his lee.

But is there anything in colregs about asking for room to tack? I think not.

 

[onesea]

If you were racing, undoubtedly so. But then if you were racing you wouldnt try to overtake in his lee.

But is there anything in colregs about asking for room to tack? I think not.

Nothing saying in them that you cannot ask either, IMHO ordinary practice of seamen may make the situation such that with due regard for the dangers of navigation and collision, the limitations of the vessels involved probably made a departure from the rules necessary to avoid the grounding would of been the most sensible course of action.

Agree you should try and avoid getting yourself in that situation, but once in it the other vessel IMHO does not have the right to force you to go aground...

 

[prv]

the other vessel IMHO does not have the right to force you to go aground...

Certainly not, if by "force" we imagine some kind of race-style tactical manoeuvring to keep you covered. But he wasn't doing that, he was simply sailing along in a straight line on starboard.

Now if the OP was able to point higher than him, and hence come up towards him on the same tack, the other boat would have been windward boat and would have to keep clear - this rule is exactly because the boat to leeward may be trying to claw away from the putty.

On the other hand, if the OP can't point any higher, and really needs to tack to stay off the mud, then he should do so; it then becomes a port / starboard situation with him as the give-way boat, and he should steer round the other's stern. The alteration need not be massive, so the ground lost is very little.

Where it gets mildly tricky is where the two boats are so close alongside that the leeward one would hit the windward one in mid-tack - ie, it is not possible to steer round his stern. It sounds like this is the situation the OP considered himself to be in. And it's only very mildly tricky, because as already said the solution is simply to slow down. If the boats are that close then the other will be past in seconds, and you can tack clear astern of him, again without losing any significant ground.

(Water to tack is a racing thing, because the small amount of time you give up does matter there. But not to a cruiser.)

Pete

 

[earlybird]

The OP is the overtaking boat, and is therefore obliged to keep clear. This obligation remains on the OP until he is clear ahead, when other rules come into play.

 

[mjcoon]

If you were racing, undoubtedly so. But then if you were racing you wouldnt try to overtake in his lee.

But is there anything in colregs about asking for room to tack? I think not.

IIRC some months ago Tom C in YM opined that one should always overtake to windward of the other yacht if there is a choice, despite it appearing un-British. Justification, I think, was to be sure that the manoeuvre was completed promptly rather than spinning it out and possibly failing to overtake altogether (having lost the clean wind).

Mike.

 

[jamesjermain]

The overriding principle here is that the overtaking boat must keep clear and the boat being overtaken is the stand-on vessel - port, starboard, windward leeward, all these things are secondary.

However, good sense, good manners and good seamanship suggest that once the overtaking boat had sailed himself into trouble, the stand-on vessel should sail in a way that helps him out. Most yachtsmen would follow this principle, I'm sure.

I suspect that, if the grounding had been on a rock in heavy weather and serious damage or even loss of live had occurred, the subsequent enquiry would find the stand-on vessel at least partly to blame. ColRegs state that, when danger of collision is imminent, both vessels must take action, In this case, although the collision would not be between the two vessels, the same principle would apply.

 

[flaming]

If you need to tack just let the jib fly, you'll slow down pretty sharpish, then you can tack. Used that cruising when overtaking a smaller, and shallower, boat that wouldn't need to tack at the end of the channel, also used it racing to get out of a tactical hole. If you have more space available to leeward, just bear away to make the space to tack.

The main thing this incident should teach you though is the value of planning ahead!

 

[mjcoon]

If you need to tack just let the jib fly, you'll slow down pretty sharpish, then you can tack.

Sounds like a plan for a failed tack, to me! Then even more trouble...

Mike.

 

[flaming]

Sounds like a plan for a failed tack, to me! Then even more trouble...

Mike.

Depends on the boat, you can of course sheet in again before you actually go for the tack... But if you want to bleed off speed fast dump the jib, not the main. Even better if you can do both!

 

[Mariner69]

Perhaps the OP could have looked ahead, realised that things would become tight and then slowed down by easing the sheets, rolling in some head sail (assuming roller) and just waited until there was a safe opportunity to pass at his leisure.

 

[Poignard]

However, good sense, good manners and good seamanship suggest that once the overtaking boat had sailed himself into trouble, the stand-on vessel should sail in a way that helps him out. Most yachtsmen would follow this principle, I'm sure.

I suspect that, if the grounding had been on a rock in heavy weather and serious damage or even loss of live had occurred, the subsequent enquiry would find the stand-on vessel at least partly to blame. ColRegs state that, when danger of collision is imminent, both vessels must take action, In this case, although the collision would not be between the two vessels, the same principle would apply.

I'm sure no-one but an idiot would deliberately try to force someone else to run aground but, in this instance, the stand-on yacht may not have been aware that the overtaking yacht was running out of water. He has no way of knowing the draught of the overtaker, or the depth under his keel. And there's plenty of mud in Chichester Harbour waiting to catch he who makes a mistake (as I know to my cost!).

Perhaps the OP could have overcome his native English reserve and shouted something like "I say, I'm awfully sorry to trouble you old chap, but have to make a tack. Rather urgently as it happens ".

 

[Poignard]

Perhaps the OP could have looked ahead, realised that things would become tight and then slowed down by easing the sheets, rolling in some head sail (assuming roller) and just waited until there was a safe opportunity to pass at his leisure.

Yes but he was near a lee shore

 

[Wansworth]

as the op I take full resposibility although mitigating circumstances like more mud extending into the fairway was err disconcerting.As it was the firts real sail in the boat I was slightly out of controland the wretched jib sheets catching up on the stays hindered the slick tacking we all aspire to.I dont think the other yacht was aware of impending doom;although I did think of as.king for wáter we smoothly came to a halt.On the bright side I remembered to layout an anchour and follow the right proceedure after hitting the mud so really a mild fopar.