Overcoming the dread and mystery of engines

[Stemar]

Perhaps the green engines grab a lot of attention because there are so many of them?

That, plus people who didn't learn the correct, entirely unintuitive, way to start the 200x series. I had a 2003 that was 25 years old when I put it in Jissel, and it was still going strong when I sold her 15 years later, including starting in midwinter.

 

[Wansworth]

I am attracted by the logic of an engine……Unfortunatly Itend to be illogical

 

[justanothersailboat]

I think AntarcticPilot is dead right about there being a lot of variability on RYA diesel engine courses, I was very disappointed on mine. I think of myself as an engine dunce but honestly, the commonly encountered non-electronic boat diesel is not all that complicated. Electronic ones... I'm never sure whether they actually are complicated, or whether it's just that it requires a fairly different skillset to diagnose and repair electronics and few people have both.

 

[Birdseye]

I should have paid more attention to my father he knew all about engines and marine electrics but somehow he didn’t pass on his knowledge.Having had severalboats with engines starting with a Stuart Turner which seemed to run even after a winter completely abandoned Looking back I have no recall of my relationship to it.The next boat I took the engine out and used a sculling oar.Then there was the 40footer with 4 cly Ford engine which became water locked off the Galician coast in thick fog.That wouldn’t have happened if Ihad known more about engines.As long as it was running it was ok but if it stopped that’s when I was flumoxed.I am more of an artistic bent and logical thinking regarding engines seems something I cannot retain.One of the reasons I would like to buy one more boat is to come to terms with an engine and not fear it

Times have changed. When I was first pottering with engines back in the 60s, they were unreliable things and you needed to have some knowledge to handle breakdowns. They are far more reliable these days so you can have a happy life without knowing an conrod from a crankshaft. Most drivers havent a clue whats under the bonnet and never break down.

If you still want to learn then by far the best way is to get a small old engine and take it to bits. A small diesel really is a simple piece of kit and when its in bits it becomes obvious how it works.

You are way more likely to have electrical / electronics problems on a boat

 

[Wansworth]

Reading the motor boat forum seem endless problems that affect the motor,dirty fuel,bad connections,air getting in ,the engine block in itself is ok it’s all the bits joinedto it are my downfall

 

[justanothersailboat]

Some selection bias there Wansworth, they are always motoring and you only hear about it when they have a problem.

Anyway you will buy a boat that also has sails, so if your motor does cause a problem (which is rare) there is nothing to worry about, just sail to a safe anchorage. Right?

Now go. buy. the. boat.

 

[Wansworth]

Some selection bias there Wansworth, they are always motoring and you only hear about it when they have a problem.

Anyway you will buy a boat that also has sails, so if your motor does cause a problem (which is rare) there is nothing to worry about, just sail to a safe anchorage. Right?

Now go. buy. the. boat.

If itwas that easy

 

[newtothis]

If itwas that easy

The year is 2035. Auxiliary power is now provided by sealed-unit cold fusion engines with a 100,000 hour mean time before failure. Graphene-based sails never decay and kites can be kept up in 60 knot winds without blowing out. The anchor debate has been resolved. A team of the world's leading naval architects have just launched the Wandsworth 40, having laser-scanned his body to ensure millimetre precise scantlings to suit his needs while ensuring the perfect width of sidedeck. It is being launched at his local marina for an early-bird price of £10,000.
Wandsworth: "Well, yes, but... I'll have to think about it."

 

[Wansworth]

The year is 2035. Auxiliary power is now provided by sealed-unit cold fusion engines with a 100,000 hour mean time before failure. Graphene-based sails never decay and kites can be kept up in 60 knot winds without blowing out. The anchor debate has been resolved. A team of the world's leading naval architects have just launched the Wandsworth 40, having laser-scanned his body to ensure millimetre precise scantlings to suit his needs while ensuring the perfect width of sidedeck. It is being launched at his local marina for an early-bird price of £10,000.
Wandsworth: "Well, yes, but... I'll have to think about it."

……..I even have second hand boat sites telling it now time for action

 

[LittleSister]

……..I even have second hand boat sites telling it now time for action

That's what the tell all the boys!

Usually adding that now is the ideal time because prices are rising/falling/stable* and it's beginning of season/summer/end of season. winter*.
[* delete as applicable]

 

[Wansworth]

That's what the tell all the boys!

Usually adding that now is the ideal time because prices are rising/falling/stable* and it's beginning of season/summer/end of season. winter*.
[* delete as applicable]

A niceHolman andPye 11 metre cruiser/ racer has turned up but at 36,000 euros it’s easy to cross off

 

[LittleSister]

Just as if it was yesterday in fathers Lugger on the river Dart,typical English summer,sheltering under an overhanging tree whilst it pissed down,cold and wet eating cucumber sandwiches and lemonade…..

Character forming!

A niceHolman andPye 11 metre cruiser/ racer has turned up but at 36,000 euros it’s easy to cross off

A boat to admire from a distance, I think, rather than to own bankroll.

 

[Obi]

Ahem..

Some diesels are simple.
Recent lumps wrapped in electronics can be a true challenge, even to specialists.

Not thinking about threads about green lumps in particular, but they do attract some sad attention.

The V8 in my Land Rover is a hideously complex creature.

The Perkins on my yacht a simple creature.

+1 for the RYA course as an intro.

Or Dennison Berwicks' first book on diesel engines is excellent: Home - MARINE DIESEL BASICS There are a lot of free (and useful) resources on that site as well. Particularly the free manual section at the top:

 

[Whaup367]

Of course, the tutor needs both teaching ability AND practical engineering skills. I was lucky; my instructor had both. But I think many older engineers do have teaching skills, as a result of training apprentices, but few who simply 'teach the syllabus" have engineering skills. It's probably easier to teach an engineer to teach than to teach a teacher engineering!

I fear you do both teachers, and actual engineers, a disservice. Teaching is something of an art, since people need to learn different things, depending on their prior knowledge of whatever the subject is, and learn things in different ways; so finding a way to help them understand "something" at a practical level isn't easy.
Actual "engineering" is hard: in the UK we don't distinguish well between people with spanners & oily rags that fix things and people with deep knowledge of balancing forces efficiently using appropriate materials and construction methods to design machines or systems... that's a separate gripe to the topic, though, I'm going off on one again!! (and, I appreciate, you did say "practical engineering skills")

There's a particular skill in practical "fettling" that some folk lack... an intuitive or experience-based feel for how things should go together to work smoothly and when, for example, a nut is going to strip, or a system "doesn't sound right".

For maintaining & troubleshooting marine diesels, it's this last skill that is needed, and a good teacher should be able to to inspire confidence in students by helping them up the steep bit at the beginning of the learning curve... and (IMHO) it's harder to teach someone to have confidence in their limited skills than to learn the limited skills they need to be taught.

 

[LittleSister]

. . . it's harder to teach someone to have confidence in their limited skills than to learn the limited skills they need to be taught.

 

[oldharry]

I have coped with a wide range of engines over the years, but nowadays I fear the modern engine, because of the electronics. My local car scrapyard owner tells me that apart from crashers and elderly MOT fails, nearly all the cars that come in are perfectly ok, but the black box has failed, and either nobody can find out why, or they are too expensive to replace. Some f the are qute low milers, too.

 

[LittleSister]

I have coped with a wide range of engines over the years, but nowadays I fear the modern engine, because of the electronics. My local car scrapyard owner tells me that apart from crashers and elderly MOT fails, nearly all the cars that come in are perfectly ok, but the black box has failed, and either nobody can find out why, or they are too expensive to replace. Some f the are qute low milers, too.

But as earlier posters have pointed out, the sort of diesels in regular sized sailing boats don't have all those fancy electronics that car diesels now have. Those electronics are to get vastly greater power outputs per litre than needed on boats, and to meet much more demanding emissions standards than apply to boats.

The modern yacht auxiliary diesel is little different to those of decades before, except smaller, lighter, made to closer tolerances, more reliable and produced in East Asia, rather than Europe, by the zillion (as industrial engines).

Though if there are that many good diesel engines in scrapyards, maybe the 60s/70s fashion for home marinising ex-car/van engines could make a comeback! (A friend's boat's engine (Perkins 4.108?) was out of a crashed GPO van.)

 

[oldharry]

But as earlier posters have pointed out, the sort of diesels in regular sized sailing boats don't have all those fancy electronics that car diesels now have. Those electronics are to get vastly greater power outputs per litre than needed on boats, and to meet much more demanding emissions standards than apply to boats.

The modern yacht auxiliary diesel is little different to those of decades before, except smaller, lighter, made to closer tolerances, more reliable and produced in East Asia, rather than Europe, by the zillion (as industrial engines).

Though if there are that many good diesel engines in scrapyards, maybe the 60s/70s fashion for home marinising ex-car/van engines could make a comeback! (A friend's boat's engine (Perkins 4.108?) was out of a crashed GPO van.)

Well awae that most boat engines are basically mechanical still, but for hoiw long? Mechanical diesels can be fixed, easy. Electronic common rail engines cannot. Yes there are many diesels in the breaker yards which echanically are fine. But will they run? No, because something elctronic has given up. We all know what happens when you mic electronics with seawater. So the penchant for converting road engines for marine use is a non starter... (You asked for that!)

 

[geem]

Yes, but most of the engines used in small yachts, say under 60hp are still simple and non electronic except that electric fuel pumps are creeping in and Volvos which are still mechanical have an electronic interface between the mechanical and the electronic control panels. The sort of electronics you are talking about are on engines where they are squeezing huge specific outputs out of diesels (100 hp/litre+) not the 35/litre of small auxiliaries.

Mine is 19.5hp/litre but it has a lot of litres. 4.4 of them