Overboard when single handed sailing

[PabloPicasso]

O

FWIW, here are some of the safety measures that are mandatory in the Classe Mini, the 6.50 m boats that are raced single-handed across the Atlantic.

The lifeline tether must be releasable from the chest end, while under load. For most people that means putting one of these on the chest end, so it can be released if you are getting dragged beside the boat.

There must be a means of getting back on board the boat from the water. For most people that means a piece of hollow webbing secured across the stern of the boat, from one quarter to the other. The webbing must be long enough that it can drop down 50-60 cm into the water so you can get a foot onto it. You then put some bungie cord inside and sew it into the webbing near the ends. This keeps the webbing out of the water when sailing, but when it is pulled down the bungie stretches and the webbing will come down. Depending on the height of the transom you might need a second "rung" of webbing as well, at a slightly higher level. You need to experiment a bit with the lengths of the webbing and bungie to get things right.

Another alternative is a line or webbing that goes a meter or so into the water, with loops for your feet every 30 cm or so. But the design needs to be such that stepping on a lower loop does not close the upper loops.

I also personally carried an EPIRB on my person at all times, although that is really only meaningful if you wear a life jacket to keep you afloat until help arrives.

If your budget runs to 10,000 EUR for electronics you can get an NKE autopilot with a remote control. The boat can be programmed to heave to and activate the MOB button if the base station on the boat loses contact with the remote control.

What is that type of shackle called?

 

[pyrojames]

Personally I always work at the mast as I feel constantly going on deck makes one more aware. That is a personal choice and many will not agree but however you chose to sail you must not go overboard. Your chances of being as lucky as this are slim.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv0zVsdwAb8

I agree 100%. For those of us who work in a dangerous environment, we get regular practice and training in dealing with that environment. It seems to me that if you avoiding going to the mast most of the time, the you missing out on valuable opportunities to work at the mast and move about the deck.

If you are only going on deck to the mast to try and fix things when they have gone wrong, the you are doing it with less experience, when conditions are likely to be more trying. I think this is far more dangerous than going to the mast all the time.

I have no lines from the mast to the cockpit, nor have ever done so. On the occasions I have had charter boats with everything to the cockpit, I am appalled by the extra friction in the system. I can get my main almost all the way up by hand, but on small charter boats I have had to winch it most of the way.

The best way to stay on board is too practice staying onboard, this does not mean staying in the cockpit all the time.

 

[Uricanejack]

I have a 35ft boat with most of the lines led aft, I can put the main up by hand. In most conditions. last foot or so on the winch for tension.
Its a a convenience, most of the time,
To reef I have to go forward to hook eye on horn. slight inconvenience.
I don't have lazy jacks, so I go forward to flake the sail as it comes down. which is also an inconvenience.

You may have a point with familiarity, old habits like going up the high side, and keeping low, clipping on. are still with me. Yet familiarity also breeds contempt. being comfortable on deck I happily wander about perhaps more than I should. My wife worries about me.

All in all I think my lines led aft are safer as well as more convenient. which as I get older is probably a good thing.

 

[Seajet]

My 22' boat has all lines led aft, but to take a slab reef in I have to go to the mast and pull the luff cringle down to the hook; this seems to work OK.

I have to say on my chum's Centaur, he spent out on lazyjacks and a main zip up job; it's the most awkward thing I've ever come across trying to raise the sail, the battens always catch on the lazyjacks unless perfectly head to wind with a margin of +/- 3 degrees !

A total, possibly dangerous pain, I have suggested the lazyjacks need to be adjustable / slackenable from the cockpit, or else get rid of them as my semi novice chum will have no chance if the auto or his much more novice wife is on the helm,.

I myself feel vulnerable with nothing to hang on to when on the coachroof trying to get the leech and battens of the main to go between the lazyjacks.

suggestions please ?

 

[Daydream believer]

My 22' boat has all lines led aft, but to take a slab reef in I have to go to the mast and pull the luff cringle down to the hook; this seems to work OK.

I have to say on my chum's Centaur, he spent out on lazyjacks and a main zip up job; it's the most awkward thing I've ever come across trying to raise the sail, the battens always catch on the lazyjacks unless perfectly head to wind with a margin of +/- 3 degrees !

A total, possibly dangerous pain, I have suggested the lazyjacks need to be adjustable / slackenable from the cockpit, or else get rid of them as my semi novice chum will have no chance if the auto or his much more novice wife is on the helm,.h

I myself feel vulnerable with nothing to hang on to when on the coachroof trying to get the leech and battens of the main to go between the lazyjacks.

suggestions please ?

Lazy jacks are set up wrong. Possibly set from the mast rather than out on the spreaders or set too far aft. Move the attachments forward or alter the layout, ie the way the" loops" work so that the main part of the collection is lower down
Loads of boats have them & they work. I could not imagine being without them as i single hand all the time

As for hanging on the coach roof then lead the lines aft. Comments that it creates too much friction are due to poor setup. On charter boats the owner will not care. On private boats people often do not have a clue as to how to do it. Plus they use old knackered ropes & blocks etc.
as an example of how friction can be overcome or how much difference a well set up boat is look at a well set up racing dinghy & a poorly set up one. The difference is quite amazing
Leading a line aft only means a block & a deck organiser extra but a lot of people cannot get that right

 

[Seajet]

Thanks, that confirms what I was thinking, move the lazyjacks out on the spreaders; it may look odd but anything is better than how it is now !

Incidentally the present lot was installed by a ' pro '....

 

[Poignard]

I agree 100%. For those of us who work in a dangerous environment, we get regular practice and training in dealing with that environment. It seems to me that if you avoiding going to the mast most of the time, the you missing out on valuable opportunities to work at the mast and move about the deck.

If you are only going on deck to the mast to try and fix things when they have gone wrong, the you are doing it with less experience, when conditions are likely to be more trying. I think this is far more dangerous than going to the mast all the time.

I have no lines from the mast to the cockpit, nor have ever done so. On the occasions I have had charter boats with everything to the cockpit, I am appalled by the extra friction in the system. I can get my main almost all the way up by hand, but on small charter boats I have had to winch it most of the way.

The best way to stay on board is too practice staying onboard, this does not mean staying in the cockpit all the time.

I also agree. Although I must confess to having a furling genoa and being glad of it.

It's also important to have strong grabrails on the coachroof. Mine were originally secured only by woodscrews driven up from underneath through the plywood coachroof and I feel much more confident hanging on to them now that I have through-bolted them.

 

[Daydream believer]

Thanks, that confirms what I was thinking, move the lazyjacks out on the spreaders; it may look odd but anything is better than how it is now !

Incidentally the present lot was installed by a ' pro '....

Currently sitting in oostende harbour and looking at several boats with lazyjacks. None of them are fixed to the mast. All have then about 40-50% out on spreaders. Mine are about 30% out & work ok

 

[Seajet]

Ta, I have passed this info on, just as we suspected; as it was, the main was so difficult to raise I suggested he ditch the lazyjacks altogether as it was dangerously hard to do this simple job - he or we will be changing it all this coming weekend, before bothering going to sea again.

Thanks,

Andy

 

[Daydream believer]

Ta, I have passed this info on, just as we suspected; as it was, the main was so difficult to raise I suggested he ditch the lazyjacks altogether as it was dangerously hard to do this simple job - he or we will be changing it all this coming weekend, before bothering going to sea again.

Thanks,

Andy

While he is at it i suggest he lengthens the top most cord & shortens the lower loops. This has the effect of moving the upper ones forward a touch which means the sail clears the lazyjacks a bit quicker as it is raised but the lower loops still catch the sail on its final drop

 

[Seajet]

The final drop sounds lovely, it was hoisting the thing without snagging the battens which was the real problem.

All gratefully received and passed on.

 

[JimC]

The final drop sounds lovely, it was hoisting the thing without snagging the battens which was the real problem.

All gratefully received and passed on.

Do the rear ends of the battens protrude from their pockets? If so shorten the battens such that they finish flush with the leech of the sail. There will then be no "hook" to catch the lazy jacks. This should improve matters.

 

[Seajet]

JimC,

hi, no the battens don't protrude, they are held inside the pockets / sleeves as normal; but when hoisting the main they naturally protrude on the roach of the sail, in this case straight into the lazyjacks unless guided with laser-like precision head to wind !

I already suspected, and Daydream Believer has confirmed, that the lazyjacks need their upper supports widening out to the spreaders.

If the set-up on my chum's boat hadn't been done by a so-called professional I'm sure he would have changed it instantly...

 

[chrishscorp]

Seajet. If you look on front of chums Centaur mast there will be a slide track which is for clipping spinnaker pole to. I found the stainless slide which fits inside the track, with welded ring, in a bag in the bottom of a locker, that would lend itself to being clipped onto with a safety line.

 

[bbg]

It is a Wichard trigger snap shackle.

http://marine.wichard.com/menu-Snap_hooks-0202040000000000-ME.html

O

What is that type of shackle called?

 

[bbg]

Sorry for the thread drift but can you quantify that in current terms ?

Boo2

The technical data says the draw is 7.5 amps. I assume that is a maximum and not constant.

http://www.nke-marine-electronics.c...ue_-_Gyropilot_Verin_Hydraulique_Mini_120.pdf

The only meaningful measure I had was that my fuel cell ran about 12 to 18 hours per day, in addition to the solar panels. When the NKE instruments failed about 3 days from Brazil I switched to a backup autopilot - a Raymarine SPX5. The fuel cell then cut back to about 2 to 4 hours per day.

 

[Seajet]

Seajet. If you look on front of chums Centaur mast there will be a slide track which is for clipping spinnaker pole to. I found the stainless slide which fits inside the track, with welded ring, in a bag in the bottom of a locker, that would lend itself to being clipped onto with a safety line.

Thanks chrischorp,

I'm familiar with such set-ups but just found standing on top of the coachroof seemed a bit precarious.

 

[SimonFa]

The final drop sounds lovely, it was hoisting the thing without snagging the battens which was the real problem.

All gratefully received and passed on.

Apologies if someone's said this, I've been following the thread but its getting a bit long.

When I got Venezia I had the same problem and it seems to be worse with Legends because they have quite a big roach. I've found that by letting off the kicker and giving the main sheet a fair amount slack the sail tends to sit better to wind and I don't get the problem as badly, although it does take a bit of judgement in when to give the haul to get the battens past the lazy jacks.

 

[Seajet]

SimonFA,

thanks but I tried all that, when I say the boat has to be guided head to wind with laser-like precision I meant it !

I'm sure having the lazyjacks led to the spreaders is the answer.

Andy

 

[Daydream believer]

Thanks chrischorp,

I'm familiar with such set-ups but just found standing on top of the coachroof seemed a bit precarious.

Plus one usually has to stand up to hook it on. Also if one has a single clip then one has to unhook it from somewhere first. I have tried double clip lines & they are more useless than good
Where my spinny ring is i have a short strop & can stick my whole hand through so i can grip it firmly in emergency but still have to let go to capture the last bit of sail