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Deleted User YDKXO
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I'll second that. If the OP can't work out the distance to France and doesn't know the fuel consumption of his boat, it's probably best that he doesn't become another RNLI statistic
Over the Channel
- Thread starter kareheat
- Start date
I'll second that. If the OP can't work out the distance to France and doesn't know the fuel consumption of his boat, it's probably best that he doesn't become another RNLI statistic
PaulGooch
Well-Known Member
I have owned a Merry Fisher 805 since Nov '98 and have clocked up 200 or so hours with it. The boat holds 230 litres of fuel and in fair conditions, at a cruising RPM of 3,200 will use approx 25 litres an hour. She will do between 14 and 18 knots at 3,200 RPM, but a sensible average SOG will be 15 knots, i use 15 knots for passage planning and it's never far out. I've also found that a figure of 1.5 litres of fuel per nautical mile is a reasonable average. Those figures are for reasonable weather conditions, rough weather can increase the consumption considerably, easily by 50%. You need to forget about 30 litres of fuel, that's going to slosh around the tank and most likely let air in, so work on 200 litres of usable fuel. You can then calculate that your 200 litres will expire after 8 hours in fair weather, but you might only have 5 hours in rough weather. As Haydn mentioned, the rule of thirds should be applied, 1/3 there, 1/3rd back and 1/3 spare. On a trip to France, you'd need 2/3rd's to get there and 1/3 spare, as you'd refuel in France. On a cross channel trip, where there is no chance of refuelling en route, i'd say you have to call it four hours cruising. That allows you plenty on the 3rds rule and a little for rough weather. Add additional fuel in cans for any further hours you need, say 40 litres an hour.
Portsmouth to Caen is about 100 miles, which would mean 6.6 hours at 15 knots, call it 6 hours. This is easily doable on a tank of fuel, with plenty to spare, as we did a 150 mile East Coast trip last Sept. We did 50 miles the first day, stopped and filled up with fuel. We then did just over 100 miles the second day and had fuel to spare. But, based on the above calculations you need to take 80 litres in cans and refill in France before leaving for home, including the 80 litres in cans. You should put the 80 litres in the tank as soon as you can, this avoids entering French waters with a locker full of red diesel and also ensures that if the weather cuts up rough and you have to re-fuel mid way, you don't have to do it in rough seas. When we did our long trip last year we actually had 150 litres of fuel in cans when we set off, we didn't use them the first day, at the end of the first day we refuelled in a marina and again set off with 150 litres in cans. I re-filled the tank half way there and arrived with tons to spare. At no point in the journey was fuel shortages a concern.
A note on re-fuelling a Merry Fisher 805 at sea. It's dangerous ! The fuel filler is right on the rear, port corner OUTSIDE of the transom door. It's risky in a small swell and would be downright suicidal in rough weather. I purchased a small submersible fuel pump, connected a few feet of rubber fuel pipe and wired it to a 12v cigar lighter plug on enough cable to reach from the 12v outlet at the helm to the rear of the boat. An empty 5 litre oil can with the top cut off is used to store it, keeping everywhere nice and clean. Reach over the transom door and stick the pipe in the filler, drop the pump into a drum in the rear of the cockpit and plug it in. Bob's your uncle, nice and easy re-fuelling en-route. Safe, clean and simple.
Right, them's the facts as far as the MF805 goes. However, i personally don't think i'd make the trip above. If it was me, i reckon i'd run along the coast a way and then cross over to Boulogne. I'm no expert on the area though, others might suggest a different route.
What i would strongly suggest though, don't plan the trip just yet. With respect, i don't think you have enough experience with the boat yet. Perhaps it's not your first boat, but I'd suggest you spend this year making some local coastal trips. Get the know the boat, learn her capabilities (and your own). You haven't had the boat long and are completely unfamiliar with her systems, if a simple thing goes wrong you could be in big trouble. Do you know where the fuel filters are ? When were they last changed ? How do you change them ? Do you have any spares ? How do you bleed the system after you changed the filter ? That's a whole bunch of questions that purely relate to getting a blocked filter, possibly due to a bit of a chop on a long voyage. There are plenty more questions you need to know the answers to. You carry spare alternator belts ? Tools to change them ? Know how to change them ?
How about safety kit and backups ? I know the boat is new to you, presumably fitted with a chart plotter. What happens if the plotter packs in ? What happens if the VHF set dies ? You have backups ? You have an ICC, needed to go to Europe ? VHF license ? Is the boat SSR registered ?
It's a long list, i know and i've only mentioned a some of things a new owner with a new boat needs to know. But if you take your time and get to know the boat well, you'll have a much safer trip. I'm far from an expert, some of the old farts on here have been at it for centuries, i'm only on my second boat and still have much to learn. I've spent 18 months getting to know the boat inside out and plan to spend this Summer making some longer UK coastal trips, before setting off for foreign shores next year.
Plan well, stay safe and enjoy the boat.
Oh, apologies for the novel (again)
Portsmouth to Caen is about 100 miles, which would mean 6.6 hours at 15 knots, call it 6 hours. This is easily doable on a tank of fuel, with plenty to spare, as we did a 150 mile East Coast trip last Sept. We did 50 miles the first day, stopped and filled up with fuel. We then did just over 100 miles the second day and had fuel to spare. But, based on the above calculations you need to take 80 litres in cans and refill in France before leaving for home, including the 80 litres in cans. You should put the 80 litres in the tank as soon as you can, this avoids entering French waters with a locker full of red diesel and also ensures that if the weather cuts up rough and you have to re-fuel mid way, you don't have to do it in rough seas. When we did our long trip last year we actually had 150 litres of fuel in cans when we set off, we didn't use them the first day, at the end of the first day we refuelled in a marina and again set off with 150 litres in cans. I re-filled the tank half way there and arrived with tons to spare. At no point in the journey was fuel shortages a concern.
A note on re-fuelling a Merry Fisher 805 at sea. It's dangerous ! The fuel filler is right on the rear, port corner OUTSIDE of the transom door. It's risky in a small swell and would be downright suicidal in rough weather. I purchased a small submersible fuel pump, connected a few feet of rubber fuel pipe and wired it to a 12v cigar lighter plug on enough cable to reach from the 12v outlet at the helm to the rear of the boat. An empty 5 litre oil can with the top cut off is used to store it, keeping everywhere nice and clean. Reach over the transom door and stick the pipe in the filler, drop the pump into a drum in the rear of the cockpit and plug it in. Bob's your uncle, nice and easy re-fuelling en-route. Safe, clean and simple.
Right, them's the facts as far as the MF805 goes. However, i personally don't think i'd make the trip above. If it was me, i reckon i'd run along the coast a way and then cross over to Boulogne. I'm no expert on the area though, others might suggest a different route.
What i would strongly suggest though, don't plan the trip just yet. With respect, i don't think you have enough experience with the boat yet. Perhaps it's not your first boat, but I'd suggest you spend this year making some local coastal trips. Get the know the boat, learn her capabilities (and your own). You haven't had the boat long and are completely unfamiliar with her systems, if a simple thing goes wrong you could be in big trouble. Do you know where the fuel filters are ? When were they last changed ? How do you change them ? Do you have any spares ? How do you bleed the system after you changed the filter ? That's a whole bunch of questions that purely relate to getting a blocked filter, possibly due to a bit of a chop on a long voyage. There are plenty more questions you need to know the answers to. You carry spare alternator belts ? Tools to change them ? Know how to change them ?
How about safety kit and backups ? I know the boat is new to you, presumably fitted with a chart plotter. What happens if the plotter packs in ? What happens if the VHF set dies ? You have backups ? You have an ICC, needed to go to Europe ? VHF license ? Is the boat SSR registered ?
It's a long list, i know and i've only mentioned a some of things a new owner with a new boat needs to know. But if you take your time and get to know the boat well, you'll have a much safer trip. I'm far from an expert, some of the old farts on here have been at it for centuries, i'm only on my second boat and still have much to learn. I've spent 18 months getting to know the boat inside out and plan to spend this Summer making some longer UK coastal trips, before setting off for foreign shores next year.
Plan well, stay safe and enjoy the boat.
Oh, apologies for the novel (again)
PaulGooch
Well-Known Member
I was interrupted a couple of times while typing my last post, i actually started typing it just after 10:00 lol
I see one or two others have made similar comments since i started, just to pick up on a couple of points.....
Sarabande, Spare outboard on an 805 ? Not practical IMO. You'd need to carry too much petrol to make any use of it.
Daka, 12 knots is an awkward cruise speed with an 805. She'll almost be wanting to drop off the plane at 12 knots in fair weather. 3,200 will give her around 15 knots. 20 knots would be WOT on a very fair day. Flat calm, WOT fast following tide and a back wind she'll just about do 23 knots with a clean bottom. I'd also run around the coast before crossing.
Aidy, without knowing the tank capacity and fuel consumption, you can't advise someone to fill up and set off lol A MF805 has no sails to hoist.
I see one or two others have made similar comments since i started, just to pick up on a couple of points.....
Sarabande, Spare outboard on an 805 ? Not practical IMO. You'd need to carry too much petrol to make any use of it.
Daka, 12 knots is an awkward cruise speed with an 805. She'll almost be wanting to drop off the plane at 12 knots in fair weather. 3,200 will give her around 15 knots. 20 knots would be WOT on a very fair day. Flat calm, WOT fast following tide and a back wind she'll just about do 23 knots with a clean bottom. I'd also run around the coast before crossing.
Aidy, without knowing the tank capacity and fuel consumption, you can't advise someone to fill up and set off lol A MF805 has no sails to hoist.
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kareheat
New Member
Across the Channel
Blimey I didn't realise such a quick question was going to cause so much trouble!!!
By the way, my hubby has sailed across from Portsmouth to Cherbourg on many an occasion in a yacht, just in case anyone needs to know!!!
Haydn, just for info, French is not spelt Frensh!!!!
We haven't had the Merry Fisher 805 very long, so wanted to get some idea of cost of diesel and time involved, if we ever were to go across there. We are not teenagers just out of school!!!! My husband is well able to get us there. He was probably in the Merchant Navy before you lot were out of your diapers.
Thanks Paul for your sensible reply!!!! We haven't had this boat long, as you know, and wanted a rough idea.
We bought this boat in the hope that maybe one day when we were a little more confident in her, maybe we could get across there.
thanks anyway for the sensible replies!!!
Karen
Blimey I didn't realise such a quick question was going to cause so much trouble!!!
By the way, my hubby has sailed across from Portsmouth to Cherbourg on many an occasion in a yacht, just in case anyone needs to know!!!
Haydn, just for info, French is not spelt Frensh!!!!
We haven't had the Merry Fisher 805 very long, so wanted to get some idea of cost of diesel and time involved, if we ever were to go across there. We are not teenagers just out of school!!!! My husband is well able to get us there. He was probably in the Merchant Navy before you lot were out of your diapers.
Thanks Paul for your sensible reply!!!! We haven't had this boat long, as you know, and wanted a rough idea.
We bought this boat in the hope that maybe one day when we were a little more confident in her, maybe we could get across there.
thanks anyway for the sensible replies!!!
Karen
RIN
Well-Known Member
DIAPERS? You have been watching too many American TV programs!
Another vote for MBM cruises by the way, Great fun and a confidence builder if you are new boaters (which I gather you are not) or in a new boat (which I gather you are)
Kawasaki
Well-Known Member
OK kareheat, now we know what you are about a bit more. This does help when trying to help.
See, the origional post came across like you guys were real begginers!
As for hlb's spelling, well it's abit like wat mine is lyke
However, we do mange, sort of!
See, the origional post came across like you guys were real begginers!
As for hlb's spelling, well it's abit like wat mine is lyke
However, we do mange, sort of!
sailorman
Well-Known Member
Wots a diaper
PaulGooch
Well-Known Member
You're welcome Karen. As i said, easily doable IMO.
hlb
RIP
Haydn, just for info, French is not spelt Frensh!!!!
Yes, and pointing out folks typo's and even mistakes, on forums, is deemed terrible bad manners.
If you want sencible answers back, you really have to ask sencible questions.
My point stands. If you dont know where your going, how far it is, or how much fuel you will use. Your not fit to go.
One of the biggest problems on here, is folk only ask part of the question and leave important details out. So it's not much wonder that they get answers that they are not happy with. Wasteing loads of folks time.
Then they come back, days later and casually mention things like "Cherbourg", like it's a bit of a clue, but I'll keep you guessing if thats really where we are thinking of going.
"My husband is well able to get us there. He was probably in the Merchant Navy before you lot were out of your diapers."
That puts him in his 80's. You sure he's up to it!!!
Yes, and pointing out folks typo's and even mistakes, on forums, is deemed terrible bad manners.
If you want sencible answers back, you really have to ask sencible questions.
My point stands. If you dont know where your going, how far it is, or how much fuel you will use. Your not fit to go.
One of the biggest problems on here, is folk only ask part of the question and leave important details out. So it's not much wonder that they get answers that they are not happy with. Wasteing loads of folks time.
Then they come back, days later and casually mention things like "Cherbourg", like it's a bit of a clue, but I'll keep you guessing if thats really where we are thinking of going.
"My husband is well able to get us there. He was probably in the Merchant Navy before you lot were out of your diapers."
That puts him in his 80's. You sure he's up to it!!!
sarabande
Well-Known Member
"he was probably in the Merchant Navy"
Is this a guess ?
Is this a guess ?
kcrane
Well-Known Member
The old timers on the forum forget what an intimidating place it can be, with honourable exceptions (Kawasaki step forward amongst others).
Newcomers post questions to which they largely know the answer as a way to start to get involved, I know I did. Established posters can however read them at face value (and little empathy) and respond in a robust manner, which reinforces the feeling it is an interesting but intimidating forum.
If you are out there, lurking as I think it is called, please don't be put off. Come on in, the water's lovely (see what I did there, that's a clever play on words that is).
PS - I liked the idea of the trip east along the English coast, then jump to France at a narrow bit. Hadn't thought about it only being 20-30 miles longer than straight across.
kareheat
New Member
kareheat
New Member
Hey Paul
Thanks again for all this info. It is very much appreciated and of interest to us both.
It is nice to speak to you again.
By the way we have our petrol gauge working again, thank goodness and a thermostat for our fridge, so things are looking up.
All we need now is some blooming good weather!!
Karen and Ross
Thanks again for all this info. It is very much appreciated and of interest to us both.
It is nice to speak to you again.
By the way we have our petrol gauge working again, thank goodness and a thermostat for our fridge, so things are looking up.
All we need now is some blooming good weather!!
Karen and Ross
carlton
Well-Known Member
Petrol gauge? Your boat's petrol powered? If that's the case it could be time to review your fuel consumption before crossing.
hlb
RIP
Now that's cruel.
If I asked the question. How far Plymouth to Cherbourg. I've not got me map here.
I'd get the answer back instantly. No prob's.
I would not dream of asking, how much fuel does my boat use. No one else knows.
Kcrane.
I saw your reply as I was posting. It's nothing to do with trying to intimidate folk. It's to do with saving folks lives. Or not doing stupid things.
"Newcomers post questions to which they largely know the answer".
How the hell do we know. Is there another way of treating information, other than on face value??
Kwackers is me mate. But I still think he was wrong to quote 4 GPH, he can not possibly know about this boat, especially as another owner quoted 5 GPH.
Do we want to be responsible for the boat konking out, 20 miles from the finishing line??
No the owner has to make his own mind up.
To me, we have to be very carefull, not to say. Yep you'll use 50 gallons, it's dead easy in your boat, carry on mate, especially when we are not to sure who we are talking to.
If folk want to take caution as intimidating, so be it. Maybe they just have to explain better.
EugeneR
Well-Known Member
Why not get a fuel computer?
That way, you get an idea of the boat's consumption before you go and it should also tell you how far the remaining fuel will take you - assuming other variables e.g. tide, wind, etc remain the same.
It could also save you money in the longer term as you would be able to optimise your cruising speed for maximum fuel efficiency.
That way, you get an idea of the boat's consumption before you go and it should also tell you how far the remaining fuel will take you - assuming other variables e.g. tide, wind, etc remain the same.
It could also save you money in the longer term as you would be able to optimise your cruising speed for maximum fuel efficiency.
stelican
Well-Known Member
Kawasaki
Well-Known Member
One was presuming One's bum was clean.
Anyway, it's spelt 'Barnacles'
One does have to point One's spelling mistakes out.
Cos One could end up in the ****e
One spellin mistake and One could end up in the Zuider sea unless yer ends up in Zummerset with too much Cider see
kcrane
Well-Known Member
Don't think anyone is going out of their way to intimidate, but a few of the replies were, shall we say, blunt.
I can't fault your logic of questioning something which appears to be ill-considered.
PaulGooch
Well-Known Member
It's not petrol, it's diesel. I often hear people mention they need to call at the garage and get some petrol, when they own diesel cars. How many people use "Fairy Liquid" for washing up, when it says "Tesco washing up liquid" on the bottle ? How many of us have "Hoovers" with Dyson stamped on the side ? Don't take everything so literally. Reading some of the replies above will tell you that the boat in question is diesel. There is no need to review any fuel consumption figures, they didn't have any, that's why they posted. My post gives them the information they need regarding consumption figures.
Seriously guys, you need to cut some of the new posters some slack, or there won't be any new posters. I know i'm kind of new here myself, but i'm far from new to internet forums. With respect, some of your answers make me cringe a little. I get Haydn's point about safety, but the wording and tone of some of the posts is somewhat intimidating for new posters. Not everyone knows how to ask a particular question and what information might be required for a truly helpful answer. Perhaps it might be an idea to ask about any further information that might be needed ?
It's also totally out of order for some of the regular guys here to dive in with jibes just because they see their forum buddies in a disagreement with an "outsider", IMO.
>>Donning flame proof suit<<