Outboards changing power

[Rum_Pirate]

What would you do if you bought two NEW 90hp outboard engines.

Then a couple years later a block on one of them is damages (for whatever reason).

Whereupon you find that the 90hp outboard that you bought turns out to have been a 70hp that the dealer had in stock (he did not have another 90hp) and in order to complete the sale he
a) changed the decals
b) changed the carburettors (not sure if he actually made the change).
c) did not change the timing.
d) did not disclose that the engine was a 70 which he doctored (after manufacture to parade as a 90hp) into a 90hp and charged you full price.

NB these are the differences between the 70hp and the 90hp as the rest apparently is the same.

Then at the time when the block broke you discover that the dealer went bankrupt a month before.

What would you do?


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PS This is a true event.
and NO it is not Yamaha.

 

[Kawasaki]

Not much you can do if the Dealer is no longer trading.
Contact the Manufacturer maybe?

Or stick the duff one on Fleebay.
Seems **** sells on there!

 

[AndieMac]

I am only guessing here...but is this the reason you are less than complimentary about the outboards that are glossy black in colour?

Although the engine blocks are the same, the exhaust plate and reed plate and carbys are different (usually about 1,000 GBpounds worth). A half hearted conversion is always going to end in tears (carbys only attempt).

You have been treated badly by the dealer.

 

[Duster]

What would I do?
As far as I can see there is little legal that you can do if the dealer has gone bust. I personally would spend £100 or so on some local muscle to reshape his legs, preferably whilst I was on holiday. Do you have a local chapter of the Hells Angels or similar?
I do not know your local legal system, but if the above does not appeal, I would involve the police as what he did sound like fraud to me, and he may be personally liable for this even though the business is bust.
It may be worth a VERY TACTFULL approach to the manufacturer as they do value their good name and the dealer may well have been acting as an "agent" for them. If no response post full details of make , model, serial numbers, photos etc and the lack of manufacturer support on every appropriate web site you can think of.
What a bummer!
Regards mikej

 

[jfm]

What would you do if you bought two NEW 90hp outboard engines.

Then a couple years later a block on one of them is damages (for whatever reason).

Whereupon you find that the 90hp outboard that you bought turns out to have been a 70hp that the dealer had in stock (he did not have another 90hp) and in order to complete the sale he
a) changed the decals
b) changed the carburettors (not sure if he actually made the change).
c) did not change the timing.
d) did not disclose that the engine was a 70 which he doctored (after manufacture to parade as a 90hp) into a 90hp and charged you full price.

NB these are the differences between the 70hp and the 90hp as the rest apparently is the same.

Then at the time when the block broke you discover that the dealer went bankrupt a month before.

What would you do?

PS This is a true event.
and NO it is not Yamaha.

If true the dealer is a shyster. Depending on where you live, it might amount to fraud committed by him personally, so you can still persue him even tho his business is bust. Dunno if it's worth pursuing him of course

And yes, appeal to manufacturer's goodwill

Next time you buy an outboard check the serial number. Perhaps this is common practice where you are based?

I don't think this is mercury becuase I dont recall any time they had the same engine doing 70 + 90hp, but I could be wrong. Surely you can say what brand it is?

Good luck

 

[Rum_Pirate]

What would I do? . . . I personally would spend £100 or so on some local muscle to reshape his legs, preferably whilst I was on holiday.

He had a heart attack around the time the business closed. NO, the heart attack had absolutely nothing to do with me, directly or indirectly.

It was Mercrap and they would not confirm or deny that it was or was not company policy to condone such doctoring.

I now have two x 85hp Yamaha's.

 

[AndieMac]

I spoke to our local guy and asked if this has been done before (75 - 90). He said that individuals had attempted the process a number of times by changing carbys only, and always ends up ugly.

To buy all the parts to convert were $2000, the same as the difference in the new cost between 75 and 90 anyway, so why bother.

I have a 75 (2003 mod. 2 st.) on one of the workboats here, and boy does it get a hard time. Its been absolutely flogged all its life, even sank 2 years ago for 12 hours in salt water (changed the starter motor, just in case), during a storm. We drag and push heavy weights (boats up to 15 tonnes) and all the things you are not suppose to do, and leave it permanently moored (brackish water for 6 years).
It just won't die, although smokes like a cold diesel.

Yams are a nice bit of gear to.

 

[Rum_Pirate]

I spoke to our local guy and asked if this has been done before (75 - 90). He said that individuals had attempted the process a number of times by changing carbys only, and always ends up ugly.

To buy all the parts to convert were $2000, the same as the difference in the new cost between 75 and 90 anyway, so why bother.

This dealer did change the carbs and the decals but did not change the timing.

Surely it is fraud when you do that without disclosure and try and sell it as a 90?

I only fund out when trying to order a new block(powerhead) for it and when quoted the serial number was told it was not a 90.

 

[Sundays_Child]

I think AM is saying that to do it properly costs as much as the 90. I would guess yours wasn't done properly.

Sorry to hear your story. Had a makeshift/bodged sale happen to me. Not nice.

 

[sarabande]

just a though, RP. If the dealer was an accredited or otherwise authorised dealer, then there may have been (may still be) an agreement or KPI or SLA that work will be done to an agreed standard.

Not sure how you might find out unless you try and buy the dealership !

 

[Tidnock]

If it is new, when registered for warranty, one would assume the serial number will have come up as a 70hp, what was on your warranty registration document? has the manufacturer accepted the 70 registered as a 90? are they still under warranty? I would throw yourself at the mercy of the manufacturer and ask if they are willing to help in some way, after all, one of their appointed dealers sold it to you, when the dealer went the warranty did not.

 

[Rum_Pirate]

Letter I sent

Dear Mr XXX (at Mercury)

Thank you for your E-mail.

Before we go any further and organize any visits or any expense, I would like to confirm, advise and ask the following:

For your information :
The boat is moored in a salt water bay for 6-7 months a year.
The engines have less than 120 (ignition on) hours.
The engines are mounted on separate Armstrong stainless steel outboard brackets. The brackets each have the original 4 anodes which do not eat away.
The engines are left trimmed up when moored.
Each engine has its own battery and is disconnected with an anti-theft switch when moored.
The engine transom mounting bracket is partially in the water.
The grub screw on the trim reservoir rusted out and I had to replace it.
The bar anode at the bottom of the transom mounting bracket on each engine eats away to nothing in less than about 4 months. Why? PLEASE ADVISE.

The other engine (the 90 built as a 90hp) was hit by a wave while trolling and had the engine block destroyed by the bottom connecting rod. I express concern that this would happen. Fortunately I was running on one engine at the time.
In sourcing a replacement ‘powerhead’ is when and how I discovered that the “other” engine was a doctored 75hp.

My points:

1. The engine in question (the 90hp built as a 75 and doctored) runs. It starts OK. It accelerates OK. It runs OK. And it stops (when I switch it off) OK. I have no difficulty so far in this respect. If I had, you can be assured that I would have contacted the Mercury dealer (when he was in operation) or Mercury HQ, however

2. I have had difficulty in synchronizing the engines.
This may be due to :
a) corrosion in the cables (both throttle and gear). OR
b) the timing on the “doctored” engine not being adjusted by the dealer. OR
c) something in the engine. I have cleaned the throttle and gear change tracks.OR
d) some other cause.
At this point, I think it is most likely to be “a)” corrosion in the Mercury throttle cables.
In the meantime, I have been doing my own detective work while Mercury made up its mind on how to proceed.
There are visible rust stains on one of the Mercury genuine part cables to the other engine (the 90hp made as a 90hp).
I mean they, like the engines, are less than 1400 days old and Mercury parts do not last for ever ! ! DO YOU AGREE?
I am at present trying to source the cables.

3. There is significant corrosion on both engines. The trim pump ‘iron’ housing is merrily rusting and flaking. The grub screw on the trim reservoir rusted out and I had to replace it. I had to remove the assembly to do this and paint it with anti-rust paint which has helped slow the corrosion.
There are other areas of serious corrosion. Why Mercury uses ferrous metals like this in outboard engines for salt water use boggles the mind – stupidity or freshwater mentality or built in obsolescence springs to mind. PLEASE ADVISE.

4. I have not had a reply from Mercury as to my query whether doctoring engines to give/be sold, without disclosure to customer, as engines with 20% more power by dealers is standard or accepted Mercury policy. PLEASE ADVISE include proposed compensation.

5. I have not had a reply from Mercury as to my query whether this doctoring of engines affects the Mercury warranty. After all it is in a “3rd world country” and outside the “continental USA”. PLEASE ADVISE.

6. The decals on the cowlings have faded and flaked off to a terrible state in less than 1400 days since the engines were purchased. I have replaced one set and it too is now fading.

7. Does Mercury really and seriously build outboard engines for use in salt water? YES/NO? PLEASE ADVISE.

Therefore my main concern is the doctoring of the engine to put out 20% more power without disclosure (conning the customer – I consider that I have been cheated) and the excessive corrosion.

To date as previousl;y stated I am less than impressed with Mercury engines.
For your consideration, at the very least (with an accompanying letter stating that is provided under warranty) the entire trim pump complete assemblies, decals and throttle& gear cables should be replaced free of charge, replacement engines would be better. An apology for the deceit would also be welcome.

I stand by my word, that I would meet the technician at the airport transport him to the boat and take him back to the airport.

I look forward to hearing from you, before we proceed to a time and date for a visit by the technician.

Best regards



PS I suggest that you use the Caribbean as hands on testing grounds for Mercury outboards.