Outboard motor not strong enough on Lake Windermere

Does the Jaguar 22 keel fully retract? From a quick Google it looks to me as if there is still a fair bit of keel below the boat even when it is raised.
My boat has a lifting keel which lifts into a stub keel. When the keel is raised I still have plenty of steerage and it makes little difference whether it is up or down when I am under power.


With regards the engine kicking up when reverse is engaged; many outboards automatically lock the tilt mechanism when reverse is engaged. An adjustment may be needed to the mechanism rather than a pin being put in. If OP says what engine he has, and what age it is, somebody may be able to give him a definitive answer.
 
Was it choppy, you don't get waves on Windermere like you do on the sea?

Most of the keel is still sticking out the bottom of the boat when it's up, the center of gravity and lateral resistance moves aft though.

I'd be looking at the prop, if the engine doesn't slow down when a wave slows the boat down it's probably slipping, unless it's a dinghy prop then I don't know.

My Jag 25 strugled once into a good wind on Windermere. It had a 7Hp Honda/Volvo inboard petrol saildrive, a poor substitute for a diesel. It was fairly flat water and I put the poor performance down to the windsurfer on the side deck and the canoe we were towing.
 
The keel swings up against the hull, but remains below the boat. I would imagine that the reduced keel area and a slipping prop would be the likely causes.

This is the Catalina 22 (same boat)

keel.jpg
 
Lakesailor said:
Another thing may be that the prop hub has failed and the rubber cush drive is slipping. You wouldn't notive in benign conditions, but when you need more ooomph it's not delivered, although the engine revs will rise.
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I think Lakey could be onto something here. A 6hp outboard should be plenty for your boat, even with a standard prop.
As said though above, the boat needs at least some of the keel down to pivot about, otherwise it will just get blown sideways, and you have little steerage. If you're almost stationary in the water, you're much better steering the engine rather than using the rudder as the thrust is in the right direction.

Don't give up yet - its a valuable learning experience, and occasionally happens to us all at some point!
 
jag22 said:
the bracket kept 'jumping' up almost out of the water when I was changing into reverse gear
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I wonder if you were in a rush to change gear? You need to spend a second or two in neutral to let the revs come right down to idle before engaging gear. The gear should then engage smoothly and you then apply the power smoothly. Doing it that way you shouldn't get any jumping.
 
I would not be in a hurry to advise OP to buy a finer pitch prop. Yes it would be better under the circumstances but in normal light wind cruising a fine pitch prop will give higher engine revs for a decent cruise speed so more noise. There is a joy in puttering along at low engine power and revs in dead calm conditions.
It does seem to me that OP should have been more aware of the bad weather and not rely so much on the grunt of the engine to save the day.
Regarding steering I have a simple arrangement of a way to lock the o/b tiller in straight position but it is easy to lift that out for steering with both rudder and o/b tiller. With keel down that really gives a tight turn.
OP did not say if it was a long shaft Johnson 6. The long shaft does keep the head high when you need the prop deep in the water to cope with waves and pitching. it is quite obvious however if prop is lifting too high when pitching as engine revs rise dramatically.
Op might be encouraged to set the boat up for stronger winds. ie storm jib and double reef in main. A said motor sailing can be more successful than motoring.
One rule if in doubt about wind strength sail up wind first so a dash home is down wind.
OP should persevere. Sailing is all about crisis management. good luck olewill
 
jag22 said:
My son and I had a very scary moment yesterday whilst out on Winderemere. We got trapped out on the lake in very strong winds gusting heavily. We were motoring back with no sails up but the engine wasn't strong enough to cope and we were unable to maintain course. In the end we were blown off course, hit another boat which was on it's swinging morning, but managed to cleat onto it, before gathering ourselves and going full power over the last 100 m to the marina entrance which is then much more sheltered. All in all it put me off a bit.

We have a 6HP outboard, does this seem to be strong enough for the lake, or should we have not been out in the first place? What does everyone think?
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Flog the boat & buy a lawnmower:):)
 
Good call on keel down, I would also sit well aft, particularly with the crew, that puts the outboard prop deeper in the water and resists it leaving the water as the boat pitches. I did that on our old Manta 19 and it made a big difference. Your boat is light and so very susceptible to weight distribution.
 
Thanks to all who replied to my question. It's really encouraging to get so many helpful tips and notes of support. I have taken the boat back off ebay and will stick with it. Each time we use the boat we learn more and from this experience and comments in the thread I will:

- make sure the keel is dropped
- not try and steer with the rudder when we have no boat speed
- investigate the lock down pin or maybe get a new new motor
- keep weight to aft

Until next time... thanks!
 
that's what sailing life is all about. Pushing your own levels of skill and knowledge forward each time you go out. Well done for sticking with it.
 
Yes I agree with that, but I am still annoyed with myself for not reading the conditions properly, and being smart enough to avoid the problem in the first place.

Like you say I guess it is about learning your boat's limitations, your own skills and knowing learning from what worked/didn't work. Being tossed around out of control and being blown into other boats is a very unpleasant experience!
 
Was it pitching to the point that the prop was coming out of the water? I have had that happen on the sea but not on Windermere, it can happen though.
Even when the prop stayed in the water, 3 or 4 sucesive slams into waves slowed the boat down to the point where the tiller went floppy as steerage way was lost. The bow just blew off untill the boat got enough way to steer again. With a high thrust prop the engine note changed as the boat slowed and increased again as it speeded up, I could tell how much it was working.
If you can reach the engine tiller to steer your weight will be pretty far aft anyway, it gives the prop max chance to stay in the water if it's that rough.

I wouldn't be to annoyed with yourself, so long as you learn from the experience it's all good.
 
Part of my Dingy Course in the 1970's was tacking back and forth to pick up a swinging mooring when a force 6 was blowing in Hollyhead Harbour. No engine then. The moment you drop the sails you become a Motor Boat. And a 6hp, well it might be a 6 hp but I bet its got a tiny propeller.
 
Hi Bob

The engine pitch was changing, the waves were directly from the port side, and whist they are obviously not anything like waves at sea they were enough to make us pitch and roll a little. As I mentioned before I was trying to steer with the rudder tiller and with little boat speed I can now see how this would be ineffective.

I'll take a closer look at how the motor sits in the water because I think I have a problem with the lock down pin. It jumps almost completely out of the water when in reverse. It's an old Evinrude 6HP but has recently been given a thorough service by an outboard specialist and starts first time and sounds like it runs smoothly.
 
jag22 said:
Hi Bob

The engine pitch was changing, the waves were directly from the port side, and whist they are obviously not anything like waves at sea they were enough to make us pitch and roll a little. As I mentioned before I was trying to steer with the rudder tiller and with little boat speed I can now see how this would be ineffective.

I'll take a closer look at how the motor sits in the water because I think I have a problem with the lock down pin. It jumps almost completely out of the water when in reverse. It's an old Evinrude 6HP but has recently been given a thorough service by an outboard specialist and starts first time and sounds like it runs smoothly.
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If your Evinrude is like my old Johnson 6HP it has a little lever in the middle of the front of the mounting frame. Just aft of the handle across the front. This lever operates a latch to hold the engine down in reverse. You push the little lever down and slightly sideways to lock it down and in this position the motor can be tilted back easily. In the normal up position two latches move onto a cross bar down the back to latch the engine down. Although I think with a lot of force this can be overcome. have a close look at the mechanism. good luck olewill
 
William_H said:
If your Evinrude is like my old Johnson 6HP it has a little lever in the middle of the front of the mounting frame. Just aft of the handle across the front. This lever operates a latch to hold the engine down in reverse. You push the little lever down and slightly sideways to lock it down and in this position the motor can be tilted back easily. In the normal up position two latches move onto a cross bar down the back to latch the engine down. Although I think with a lot of force this can be overcome. have a close look at the mechanism. good luck olewill
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Thanks for the description, I'll try and take a look. I know it's hard to describe these sorts of things. I've been aware for sometime that something is wrong with the engine but can't work out what. I'll see if I can see what you describe. I've tried googling it for some useful pictures of what to look for but no joy online
 
The keel on my Jaguar 21 retracts completely and it is almost uncontrollable with the keel up, even in a light breeze. As long as you know the water is deep enough, keep it down. Also, don't forget that if you are not moving forwards relative to the water your rudder does nothing (especially if, as I did one day, you forget to lower it right down!) My engine is a 6hp and although I won't be doing any water skiing it makes reasonable headway.
 
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