Out at night - how do you defend against pot/net/buoys/ropes?

[Paul-F]

During daylight I avoid the buoys and there are loads around where I am so when you are out at night (or very low visibility) how do you make sure you don't get your prop snagged in a rope attached to a pot/net marker buoy?

 

[oceanfroggie]

I avoid by routing well offshore. Rope cutters on both prop shafts are the secondary measure. They have worked twice over the years.

 

[sprocker]

It's the same around our cruising grounds Paul, made even worse by the amateur crabbers that use small markers that are even more difficult to see, this past weekend on our way to Dartmouth we saw 4 pot markers made out of old 5 litre oil containers.....to make things worse they were black! Brixham even has them in the harbor entrance.

I believe their is a petition around to ensure size/colour of marker buoys are standardised.

 

[Portofino]

Op is enquiring about avoiding them at night ( if I understand his post correctly ?)
Here in the SoF ,it sounds the same in the fact there are many .So much so inshore ,or approaching a port one normally has to dodge ,and they do put them in plane sea ways /routes .
During the day ,it's not too bad they tend to have a pole n flag ,although some are just a collection of cans .
You have to be v observant at all times ,making course adjustments ,in fact ,I ask for a pot spotter to help I'd them as we bomb along .

Answering the Q --we don,t go out ar night .
There's no need
Long days in the season ( May -Oct )
Many nice places near each other ,so you can tailor you're trip between 6am and 6 pm --I think 12 hrs with a midway refuel is enough !
Fast boat -cruise 30+ knots or on a long one high twenties in Eco mode .
Fair or fair ish weather most of the summer ,with plenty of time -so with 1/2 decent passage planning ,don,t really need to do a night trip .
Plenty of nice sheltered headlands /coves --so can anchor up -Geny on etc -sit out the night --more like sleep out the night .
It's been a long time since we did a total night passage I can not remember when if any .
Corsica eg is 100 miles , Elba from Corsica 3-hrs .Elba to Punta Alla (IT mainland ) 1/2 hour --.
It's a liesure activity for us .
Pots are a serious deterant to night Nav IMHO ,as I said 10-12 hrs ,--300 or so miles later --we are ready for a stop -rest .
So basically we don,t do night Nav ---Yet !

There's also lots of big logs, trees etc washed down rivers after storms ,these are not fixed or marked ,so for me too scarey to blat about in the dark .

 

[dpb]

I just go slow and keep my hand on the throttle to go into neutral if I see one to late to miss it.
And if you take steps to maximise your night vision it is surprising how well you do see.
Having said that the only night trips we do regularly are Swanage to Poole and knowing where to expect pots helps.
I wouldn't do the trip to say Yarmouth from Poole at night because of the pots risk.

 

[jfm]

Tricky and depends on conditions a lot. A collection of things I think about, and I do a lot of night running because I enjoy it:

1. Radar will see some pots but not all. Radar better in flat seas
2. IR camera will see them, for about £20k - I have not installed one yet!
3. Plan night passages when there is full or near full moon, and flat seas are better
4. When running along the coasts stay well offshore. In the med it gets deep quickly and there are some but not many pots with a kilometre + of rope
5. Go slow in the areas I know that tend to have a lot of pots.
6. I don't like ropecutters and don't use them - just my personal view
7. If I see one at last minute and cant avoid it speed up and stay in gear, not drop to neutral. A fast spinning prop will more likely smash the thing, I think (has only happened to me once)

I'm not sure any of the above is brilliant or even correct - just my thoughts on the topic

 

[Nick_H]

as per jfm's response, in sufficient moonlight and flattish seas you can spot them OK, if less moonlight then go further offshore, and slow down in the approaches to ports. We only tend to cruise short distances at night when returning to Antibes from firework displays or back from anchor if the overnight forecast isn't good. Even so, I think there's always a bit of pot luck involved

There was, maybe still is, a section of the forum to report badly marked pots, though I've no idea what they do with the info.

edit: yes, still there on the forum, last post 2009!

 

[oldgit]

There is no way to ensure you do not run across poorly marked pots or hit any other debris in the water for that matter
However just being aware of the problem and keeping a keen look out will probably save you 99% of the time.
On the Upper reaches of the Medway there is always sufficient junk in the water to ensure you do not forget to keep a lookout at all times.
The surface floating stuff usually not problem its the heavy hidden carp just under the water that can bring you to an abrupt halt, followed by a hurried trip to drying blocks,to remove the offending item.
Rope and building site safety netting are the worst followed closely by builders bags.

 

[dpb]

7. If I see one at last minute and cant avoid it speed up and stay in gear, not drop to neutral. A fast spinning prop will more likely smash the thing, I think (has only happened to me once)

My only reason for saying going to neutral was because the two times we have caught a rope it ended tangling in the props and stalling the engine which was very difficult to clear and would be avoided in neutral. But that's in a small outdrive boat where the rope is likely to win the fight, I could imagine that on JFM's scale of things the odds might be more in favour of the running gear!!

 

[rafiki_]

ON our SW coast pots are a real problem, with very poor marking. On our trip around the SW peninsula to the Solent, pots were a constant hazard, and we kept a very wary eye out for them. We left Padstow in the dark due to tides, and pottered along at 5 kn with a very wary eye until sun up. It is surprising how much you can see at night. I consider we were quite lucky, and avoided any pots. I too would select neutral if I felt I could not avoid a pot.

 

[jfm]

But that's in a small outdrive boat where the rope is likely to win the fight, I could imagine that on JFM's scale of things the odds might be more in favour of the running gear!!

Yep that's fair comment. I should have clarified that when I said the running gear will win the fight I was referring to quite large (in leisure boat terms) lumps of metal, rather than outdrives or that size.

A downside of keeping the props going is that if a single bit of rope goes around both props then you can get enormous side loads on P brackets. However I reckon that is unlikely to happen when you're running over a single lobster pot

 

[Portofino]

Last year we ran over something -never saw it nor did the look out .
How we knew was a loss of 5 knots ,it was in an increasing sea ( Mistral starting /forcast ) and we were going down wind at 32 knots - late --getting back before dark ironically --the very reason we were hoofing it .
Just off St Trop .
As the sea was getting quite big I carried on back to the bay of Cannes ,did not want to stop -put me mimi Diving bottle on and investigate in. 3 M + waves .
You could feel a vibration that was not there.So we limped home at 27 knots .
There's a lot of reversing on the Stb ( affected ) stick when docking .
Next day wanting to investigate (no leaks inside checked everywhere ) we gently went out and anchored as soon as poss 1/2 Mile .I went in and saw nothing attached only what a describe as whip marks Perhsps 2/3 on the Stb prop about 1/2 way up from the hub .
You could see that something had cleaned up the nibral ,like new as opposed to a grey blume of ave seasonal growth .
It's felt ok no vibrations and the correct rmp /knots etc .

So I reckon I must have caught somthing rope like maybe even a metal cable --wrapped it round the Stb dragged its other end -pot(s)--- acted as a brake loosing 5knots ?---then with the marina reversing ,giving it some in a windy berthing excercise --lost it want ever it was .
Lucky ---I was on the way back trying to remember and visualising a lift out on the insurance and the hassle factor of "sorting " surveyors reports etc .


Another time in flat calm ,red hot and way out to sea I saw what I thought was a tree /log ,so I turned to port -plenty of time to avoid. As we got nearer it seemed to still be on the bow ,so I slowed ,off the plane --
It was a brown Whale .As we approached I shut down the engines ( flat calm ) and drifted on .
Mistake --it was 2x size of the boat -eye as big as football .
It did its classic thing of lifting it's tail before disappearing ,tail was wider than the boat .
So at night ? Hmm .

1/2 way to Corsicca out of sight of land bobong long on Ap in the 12 M Sunseeker 1 M long swell waves .
Nowt to see ,just peering at instruments and the horizon .
Crew knapping just me awake -- went down to the heads ,came back up
A big ,mean really big yellow bouy slid down the port side about 1m from the boat ,I saw chain attached -must have coe loose ? -- v near miss --that would have caused serious damage .Lucky again .

Just putting a bit of back ground in why we are not in the que for a night passage .

 

[CLB]

Tricky and depends on conditions a lot. A collection of things I think about, and I do a lot of night running because I enjoy it:

1. Radar will see some pots but not all. Radar better in flat seas
2. IR camera will see them, for about £20k - I have not installed one yet!
3. Plan night passages when there is full or near full moon, and flat seas are better
4. When running along the coasts stay well offshore. In the med it gets deep quickly and there are some but not many pots with a kilometre + of rope
5. Go slow in the areas I know that tend to have a lot of pots.
6. I don't like ropecutters and don't use them - just my personal view
7. If I see one at last minute and cant avoid it speed up and stay in gear, not drop to neutral. A fast spinning prop will more likely smash the thing, I think (has only happened to me once)

I'm not sure any of the above is brilliant or even correct - just my thoughts on the topic

Fixed IR cameras from Raymarine/Flir are now down to about 2.5k (M100). Starting to become very much within the reach of the 'average' boater. These cheaper models don't rotate but do pan up and down. If you want full rotating you need 3.5k (M200). I think one of these would be a very worthwhile investment if you regularly cruise at night. (The £20k+ stuff is still available, but for the leisure boater probably not worth the extra cost).

 

[benjenbav]

Oddly, the traditional 5litre "Havoline" type of marker isn't too bad to spot at night if the sea is flat because it shows as an irregular shape against the surface. Less so if the surface is a bit choppy, of course

 

[jfm]

1/2 way to Corsicca ...
A big ,mean really big yellow bouy slid down the port side about 1m from the boat ,I saw chain attached -must have coe loose ? -- v near miss --that would have caused serious damage .Lucky again .

That wasn't adrift - it was there fore several years as some sort of weather data gathering buoy. Easily seen on radar and had flashing LED light (when working)

 

[jfm]

Fixed IR cameras from Raymarine/Flir are now down to about 2.5k (M100). Starting to become very much within the reach of the 'average' boater. These cheaper models don't rotate but do pan up and down. If you want full rotating you need 3.5k (M200). I think one of these would be a very worthwhile investment if you regularly cruise at night. (The £20k+ stuff is still available, but for the leisure boater probably not worth the extra cost).

Ah thanks - I need to take another look at the model range and pricing.

 

[Piers]

Fixed IR cameras from Raymarine/Flir are now down to about 2.5k (M100). Starting to become very much within the reach of the 'average' boater. These cheaper models don't rotate but do pan up and down. If you want full rotating you need 3.5k (M200). I think one of these would be a very worthwhile investment if you regularly cruise at night. (The £20k+ stuff is still available, but for the leisure boater probably not worth the extra cost).

Play d'eau has a mid-range FLIR (c8k) with pan and tilt specifically for night cruising. It's good to see a pot marker stick at approx 500m but you must know what you are looking for and have practiced. A 5ltr container shows up better. Using this with radar gives us the confidence to go out at night. Without one or the other, we wouldn't go.

 

[Portofino]

That wasn't adrift - it was there fore several years as some sort of weather data gathering buoy. Easily seen on radar and had flashing LED light (when working)

Those are marked on the paper and E charts iirc ?
I,ve seen one ,they are wide and flat with solar pannals , and there is one twixt C dA and Corssica .

This was a big dome shaped yellow ,kinda thing that they use inshore for less than 6 knots, but bigger than the yellow bathing bouys near a beach .
Saw the chain a few M as it bobbed about in the wake .

Radar --not got it on this boat --forgot I had not got it , Only used it a few times for practice with the Sunseeker ,
Buts that's not factored in the decision to try and passage plan during the day in the season .
Inshore -sure can see I may be usefull ,for medium targets like a weather bouy but small pots and debris ,trees etc ,big planks of wood in the dark .
Then of course in 2-3 M sea,s -targets in troughs , and a bit of window spray , where should you be looking -down at multiple screens or out across the bows ?
Slow down ---but may as well be anchored or berthed and catch up in daylight in the Med where folks can get a sun tan snoozing on the sun pads .
struggling to see the appeal--- sure there is one a night Nav in the Med .?

Never done it -night Nav --so perhaps a bit overly cautious ?

 

[sailorman]

Tricky and depends on conditions a lot. A collection of things I think about, and I do a lot of night running because I enjoy it:

1. Radar will see some pots but not all. Radar better in flat seas
2. IR camera will see them, for about £20k - I have not installed one yet!
3. Plan night passages when there is full or near full moon, and flat seas are better
4. When running along the coasts stay well offshore. In the med it gets deep quickly and there are some but not many pots with a kilometre + of rope
5. Go slow in the areas I know that tend to have a lot of pots.
6. I don't like ropecutters and don't use them - just my personal view
7. If I see one at last minute and cant avoid it speed up and stay in gear, not drop to neutral. A fast spinning prop will more likely smash the thing, I think (has only happened to me once)

I'm not sure any of the above is brilliant or even correct - just my thoughts on the topic

Look on shooting NV sites, for a better deal

 

[CLB]

Look on shooting NV sites, for a better deal

If by NV you mean night vision, then we are taking a different technology. We are also refering to integrated systems, rather than hand held devices, that I suspect would be used for shooting.