our frequent " came across the racing fleet, what shaould I have done?" posts

I have a morbid fear of racing fleets since getting tangled up in a fleet when I was learning to sail. I give all racing fleets a wide berth (the Pooh Bear stares are quite off putting) and often think that I should display constricted by draft day signs when I spot them! :rolleyes:
 
duncan99210 said:
Why is it that anyone racing thinks that they are in any way exempt from the normal rules of the sea?
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I race and I am certainly aware that Colregs apply between racing and non-racing boats. Everyone I know is aware of the same thing.

I do, however, appreciate non-racers who are courteous enough not to interfere with a race.

I suspect the call of "I'm racing" that may sometimes be heard is more an expression of frustration rather than an assertion of rights.
 
birdseye said:
That at least is simple to answer. COLREGS which is incorporated into statute in the UK includes a facility to be modified by local laws as l'escargo points out. Bye laws arent just minor rules made by the HM off his own bat - they are laws signed off by the appropriate secretary of state and again permitted by statute. So what you have in effect is one set of laws in which COLREFS has been modified.

None of which absolves the "right of way" boat from reacting to a "give way" boat that isnt giving. And as far as I can see, it also doesnt alter the issue that the racer can still be the give way boat even if you are required not to impede or hinder. Thats entirely parallel with crossing a traffic seperation scheme where you are required not to impede but the big boat coming down the scheme still has to give way to you as a sailboat crossing the scheme.
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Exactly my example. If the ship has seen you, he may or may not, attempt to avoid you. Sadly there are many yachties who do not realise the limits of larger vessels. To take on a large ship in a TSS or the open sea, is IMHO, tantamount to a death wish. Over the years I have called many on the VHF but always altered course in a reasonable time.
 
bbg said:
....

I suspect the call of "I'm racing" that may sometimes be heard is more an expression of frustration rather than an assertion of rights.
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Sometimes it's 'I'm racing, so I will use my rights under colregs, otherwise I'd have just avoided another ignorant cruising boat that doesn't know colregs'.
 
Frankie-H said:
Exactly my example. If the ship has seen you, he may or may not, attempt to avoid you. Sadly there are many yachties who do not realise the limits of larger vessels. To take on a large ship in a TSS or the open sea, is IMHO, tantamount to a death wish. Over the years I have called many on the VHF but always altered course in a reasonable time.
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Over many thousands of miles sailing I have NEVER called a ship over a collision avoidance situation developing. 99.9% of ships have no problem 'giving way' or 'avoiding' a sailing boat. Spookily I still seem to be alive with only a very slack handful of occasions where it became obvious the OOW was asleep and forcing me to take action to avoid collision.

I've chatted to a few ships on VHF (usually mid ocean) because the watch keeping officer is usually delighted to have a chat to relieve the boredom (and so are we). I ill also confess that I called a ship once to ask for a position check. It was in the days pre GPS when we didn't have a Decca. I was nearly 100 miles after my last fix and I was plotting hourly EP's and approaching the N Brittany coast in murky weather. Fortunately we were within a mile or so of where I thought we were and the Isles Vierge light house duly appeared out of the gloom.

PS Sorry to drift the thread.
 
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I once called Nord Pass de Calais when crossing the SW lane, He was stand on vessel so I alerted him to me being aware of a possible problem. I was just about to say I am gong to take action when he altered course even though he was under no obligation.

On another occasion we were leaving Dover and got clearance from port control. As we popped out from behind the breakwater the same ship suddenly saw us and gave it big blasts on the hooter. We called port control to apologise and were informed that NPC was being silly, we had plenty of room!!!
 
Define a small craft? Isn't it relative?

What happens if I am en route past Falmouth (or anywhere else for that matter), but have to divert there for [say] engine problems should I have to find all the local byelaws first?

W.
 
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grumpy_o_g said:
If I am and the stand-on vessel then he should keep well clear, otherwise I should keep well clear. If he is aiming to miss me by 6 inches off my stern he is most definitely NOT following colregs.

(a) Any action taken to avoid collision shall be taken in accordance with the Rules of this Part and
shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, be positive, made in ample time and with due regard
to the observance of good seamanship.
(b) Any alteration of course and/or speed to avoid collision shall, if the circumstances of the case
admit, be large enough to be readily apparent to another vessel observing visually or by radar; a
succession of small alterations of course and/or speed should be avoided.
(c) If there is sufficient sea-room, alteration of course alone may be the most effective action to avoid
a close-quarters situation provided that it is made in good time, is substantial and does not result
in another close-quarters situation.
(d) Action taken to avoid collision with another vessel shall be such as to result in passing at a safe
distance. The effectiveness of the action shall be carefully checked until the other vessel is finally
past and clear.
(e) If necessary to avoid collision or allow more time to assess the situation, a vessel
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Well Quite. But are you really going to be standing on the poop deck declaiming points a) to e) as the racing fleet bears down upon you and knocks the barnacles off your rudder as they pass.

Whether they are required to by colregs or not, my experience is that most non racing skippers try and accommodate a racing fleet, and quite properly get a wave or shout of thanks from the racers. We know that does not always happen and occasionally the non racer can't do right for doing wrong just by being where he is perfectly entitled to be. There is also boorish and rude behaviour from some racers that is inexcusable.

So out on the briny I always apply colregs unless a situation arises where to do so is perverse and basically we all do our best to stay out of each others way. We've all been in positions where the situation is so complex with boats all over the place that even figuring out colregs is a nightmare. How many racing egos have been calmed by the simple shout of 'Hold Your Course' or by heaving to until the fleet has whooshed past. It happens all the time and defuses many a potentially fraught situation.

Rooles is rooles of course, but we all have to have our common sense drive engaged as well. I find politeness and a smile goes a long way too. It has also been said on here many times that if you experience extreme rudeness or are the victim of truly awful seamanship, then you should report the boat to the club if you can identify it/them. Most clubs are very sensitive to maintaining good on water relationships, and words will be said.

Tim
 
Ceirwan said:
In a collision its likely both boats would be found to be at fault to some extent. No vessel has 'right of way' per se, just one vessel is expected to stand on. If it became apparent that the other vessel wasn't taking avoiding action then we still have to give way.
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I agree, believeing there is any right of way is when it gets dangerous.
 
Alfie168 said:
I find politeness and a smile goes a long way too. It has also been said on here many times that if you experience extreme rudeness or are the victim of truly awful seamanship then you should report the boat to the club if you can identify it/them. Most clubs are very sensitive to maintaining good on water relationships, and words will be said.
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Fully agree, most racers and cruisers are polite and considerate folk and everyone's enjoyment is improved if good relations are maintained. But your post reminds me of an evening off Cowes, when a circa 40' boat was leading an evening series race. He was out to the right of the beat, him on port and us on starboard (a Danish 55’ well setup cruiser racer). His bowman was gesticulating frantically. We tacked clear only to be treated to a string of expletives, which I daren't repeat.

Being a bigger boat we soon pulled ahead out of his lee; he tacked back onto starboard and so did we. On it went, when he tacked we tacked, him screaming obscenities and us just sitting there with 175 sqm of white sail gently spilling dirty wind onto him. He reached the weather mark well down the fleet.

After reflecting for a day or two the owner of the boat I was sailing on wrote a letter to the club apologising for his somewhat childish behaviour. The reply came back that the incident had been observed, but that the racer in question had been given a further penalty by the club! This one line quote from Samuel Johson was the only explanation:

“Revenge is an act of passion; vengeance of justice. Injuries are revenged; crimes are avenged.”

I guess that represents a zero tolerance policy to bad behaviour!
 
flaming said:
In the situation you're thinking of, a non racer coming across a racing fleet, you are correct.

But in the situation they're probably thinking of - a racing boat milling about between races meeting a boat still racing - under RRS they are correct.
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Good point.
 
grumpy_o_g said:
If I am and the stand-on vessel then he should keep well clear, otherwise I should keep well clear. If he is aiming to miss me by 6 inches off my stern he is most definitely NOT following colregs.

(a) Any action taken to avoid collision shall be taken in accordance with the Rules of this Part and
shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, be positive, made in ample time and with due regard
to the observance of good seamanship.
(b) Any alteration of course and/or speed to avoid collision shall, if the circumstances of the case
admit, be large enough to be readily apparent to another vessel observing visually or by radar; a
succession of small alterations of course and/or speed should be avoided.
(c) If there is sufficient sea-room, alteration of course alone may be the most effective action to avoid
a close-quarters situation provided that it is made in good time, is substantial and does not result
in another close-quarters situation.
(d) Action taken to avoid collision with another vessel shall be such as to result in passing at a safe
distance. The effectiveness of the action shall be carefully checked until the other vessel is finally
past and clear.
(e) If necessary to avoid collision or allow more time to assess the situation, a vessel
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6 in is ample.

I had a cracking mark pass on Sunday. We were approaching a mark on port tack hard on the wind and doing maybe 7kn. Two competitiors were already rounding the mark about 15 yards off for the nearest, both parallel, and out nearest competitors was approaching the mark on starboard and definitely on collison course with us. He shouted starboard but because of the other two boats and because he was so near to the mark he couldnt tack hiself. We ducked behind him by maybe that 6 inches and just managed to miss the mark before freeing off for the next mark. Passed three boats in one and very very close. Its what I like about racing.
 
where does the Falmouth HM area ends?
Could be a case for racers to have right away in one part of the harbour then as soon as they get into Truro HM waters it alters.


foeu said:
Falmouth bye-laws define a small craft as "any vessel less than 20m in length".
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No it isnt contradictory. I'm even boring myself repeating this but there is a world of difference between " obstructing or impeding" on the one hand and "give way" on the other hand. All the Truro byle laws are doing is in effect making a regatta course into a traffic seperation scheme and giving the HM the powers of a traffic policeman. Its a bit of a catch all paragraph. There is nothing in the COLREGS that allows you to " obstruct,impede or interfere with the boat race, regatta or procession or endanger the safety of persons assembling in the harbour or prevent the maintenance of order therein".
 
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