our frequent " came across the racing fleet, what shaould I have done?" posts

Birdseye

Birdseye

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our frequent " came across the racing fleet, what shaould I have done?" posts

Boning up on the RRS, itq quite clear. It says " when a boat racing under these rules meets a boat that is not, then she shall comply with IRPCS."

So IRPCS trumps RRS. Which I suppose is what you should expect anyway since IRPCS is law and RRS is not.
 
I asked some of the young hotshot dinghy sailors at our club the other day "What happens when a boat that is racing meets one which is not?" The answer came back like a shot "The non-racing boat has to give way." Message not getting through somewhere.
 
birdseye said:
Boning up on the RRS, itq quite clear. It says " when a boat racing under these rules meets a boat that is not, then she shall comply with IRPCS."

So IRPCS trumps RRS. Which I suppose is what you should expect anyway since IRPCS is law and RRS is not.
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That point is frequently raised but:
1) Try telling that to a racing fleet racing on a 3 sail reach to a mark on a Port tack as you sail through them on Starboard,
2) If you out for a gentle sail you may well still be best of avoiding them may save all some stress you and them,
3) Some times you cannot but you can try and ensure you don't clash with them to much...
 
Thanks for that. The byelaws say " The master of a small vessel on the occasion of any boat race, regatta, championship race, public procession or any other occasion when a number of small vessels are assembled therein shall not permit his small vessel to pass therein so as to obstruct, impede or interfere with the boat race, regatta, championship race or procession," . That isnt the same as "give way". After all, you havent to obstruct a vessel in a seperation zone but you dont have to give way to them. COLREGS give way rules still apply.

Whats more the bye laws dont say anythihng about altering or removing the application of colregs. Or indeed about navigation rules at all. So I have no doubt that colregs still applies with the proviso that the HM can give directions at a point in time just like a traffic plod can tell you to go wrong way down a one way street.
 
DJE said:
I asked some of the young hotshot dinghy sailors at our club the other day "What happens when a boat that is racing meets one which is not?" The answer came back like a shot "The non-racing boat has to give way." Message not getting through somewhere.
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In the situation you're thinking of, a non racer coming across a racing fleet, you are correct.

But in the situation they're probably thinking of - a racing boat milling about between races meeting a boat still racing - under RRS they are correct.
 
foeu said:
Falmouth Port Bye Laws
http://www.falmouthport.co.uk/pdf/bye-laws.pdf
See number 13

I wasn't aware of Rule 4, The master of a seagoing vessel shall give prior notice to the Harbour Master of the vessel’s arrival at, departure from or movement within, the Harbour.

He'd have been sick of hearing from us last weekend; we left our mooring, dropped into Mylor to pick up a crew member, went across to St Just to anchor for lunch, dropped into the Yacht Haven to get something from Trago, and then motored up to Falmouth Marina.
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Recently I was hard on the wind port tack and 2 Squibs and a Wayfarer were heading towards me - all under spinnaker. I thought they would want to stay to windward of me, but no they just held their course. The Wayfarer commented to one of the Squibs as I passed them closely that I was too close. Hearing that I just shouted back I was racing as well, but singlehanded. That shut them up.
 
A vessel not involved in racing is not bound in any way by racing rules - they don't even need to have any knowledge of them. All vessels are bound by ColRegs, whether racing or not, but they can sometimes be trumped by local rules, which is allowed by rule 1b: (b) Nothing in these Rules shall interfere with the operation of special rules made by an appropriate authority for roadsteads, harbours, rivers, lakes or inland waterways connected with the high seas and navigable by seagoing vessels. Such special rules shall conform as closely as possible to these Rules.
 
I'm an ex dinghy-racer and in a cruising boat I'm always mindful of racing boats and generally just try to keep out of their way, within the confines of IRPCS. However I did have one cruiser/racer episode which caused me some considerable embarrassment, so I guess this is a suitable point for a confession.

We were on a long term live aboard cruise wandering up the US East coast and had had a bouncy night in a lobster-pot encrusted anchorage in Maine. After not much sleep we decided to cut our losses and head round the corner into Portland Harbour, so contacted a local marina and booked a berth. It was only a couple of hours to get there in a reasonable F4 or so and we spent a lot of the time checking the pilot books so we knew where to go once we got into the harbour, which we entered on a very broad reach. Imagine our consternation when we sailed in only to find several hundred boats all lined up ahead of us in a narrowish part the harbour, clearly in the middle of a series of large class racing starts and beating straight towards us, stretched right across the harbour and directly between us and our intended marina. We'd never been there before, had no idea an event was on, had no idea what local rules might be in effect for the event nor where their intended race marks were. We did know we'd be right in the middle of the fleet on the first beat if we didn't do something about it. Presumably there was a working channel for the race although we didn't know what and so in the heat of the moment we decided to keep sailing but steer to the edge of the harbour, opposite to the side of the beat the bulk of the fleet was going. With hindsight we should have hove-to and put a call out on 16 to try and find out where we should go but anyway we threaded our way round the edge and eventually got behind the start line and away from the boats milling about for the next starts. I tried my damnedest just to keep well out of everyone's way and get out of there as quickly as I could but I have a distinct feeling there was a lot of comment about this daft cruiser lolloping it's way through this huge event (I was told a couple of months later by another Island Packet owner who was there watching the event that "your arrival was noticed", whatever that meant).

Anyway, the road to you know where is paved with good intentions and all I wanted to do was get out of there and get some sleep but I think there could have been a better procedure I could have followed, even though there wasn't any avoiding actions needed or loud shouting at the time :) Probably dropping sail and motoring in would have been the correct thing to do, although I considered it at the time and felt that would take too long and we'd just become a nav hazard when they all reached us. Any suggestions as to what would be the correct thing to do?
 
Many years ago I was sailing up the River Blackwater in a Finnish Trading Schooner. She was about 85 ft on deck, over 100 ft with her bowsprit and displaced something over 200 tonns. We were very obviously limited in our ability to manoeuvre but this did not stop some idiots, who were racing off Steeplstone, trying to insist on their racing rights. One particularly verbose gentleman was f'ing and blinding and screaming 'racing' at us. I simply pointed out to him that if he continued on his chosen course, he would be more likely to be dying than racing. You would honestly think that the instincts of self preservation would override anything else. I neither know nor care about the racing regs but I have been sailing for over 60 years and know a great deal about self preservation.
 
dunedin said:
But bear in mind a racing skipper may be aiming to miss you ...... by a racing margin of perhaps 6 inches off your stern.

If you prefer margins of 6 boats lengths then stay well clear
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If I am and the stand-on vessel then he should keep well clear, otherwise I should keep well clear. If he is aiming to miss me by 6 inches off my stern he is most definitely NOT following colregs.

(a) Any action taken to avoid collision shall be taken in accordance with the Rules of this Part and
shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, be positive, made in ample time and with due regard
to the observance of good seamanship.
(b) Any alteration of course and/or speed to avoid collision shall, if the circumstances of the case
admit, be large enough to be readily apparent to another vessel observing visually or by radar; a
succession of small alterations of course and/or speed should be avoided.
(c) If there is sufficient sea-room, alteration of course alone may be the most effective action to avoid
a close-quarters situation provided that it is made in good time, is substantial and does not result
in another close-quarters situation.
(d) Action taken to avoid collision with another vessel shall be such as to result in passing at a safe
distance. The effectiveness of the action shall be carefully checked until the other vessel is finally
past and clear.
(e) If necessary to avoid collision or allow more time to assess the situation, a vessel
 
Frankie-H said:
Many years ago I was sailing up the River Blackwater in a Finnish Trading Schooner. She was about 85 ft on deck, over 100 ft with her bowsprit and displaced something over 200 tonns. We were very obviously limited in our ability to manoeuvre but this did not stop some idiots, who were racing off Steeplstone, trying to insist on their racing rights. One particularly verbose gentleman was f'ing and blinding and screaming 'racing' at us. I simply pointed out to him that if he continued on his chosen course, he would be more likely to be dying than racing. You would honestly think that the instincts of self preservation would override anything else. I neither know nor care about the racing regs but I have been sailing for over 60 years and know a great deal about self preservation.
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Indeed, a good friend of mine has an original Peyton sketch of a yachtie on stb heading towards a start line full of traditional Blackwat gaffers all on port... The captio reads something to the effect of...

"You may be on starboard but I recon you are pushing your luck"
 
robertj said:
if there was a collision the bye laws would not be fronted by the old barrister in court but the international collision reg. Top trumps I believe or not, which is it?
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In a collision its likely both boats would be found to be at fault to some extent. No vessel has 'right of way' per se, just one vessel is expected to stand on. If it became apparent that the other vessel wasn't taking avoiding action then we still have to give way.
 
robertj said:
if there was a collision the bye laws would not be fronted by the old barrister in court but the international collision reg. Top trumps I believe or not, which is it?
Click to expand...

That at least is simple to answer. COLREGS which is incorporated into statute in the UK includes a facility to be modified by local laws as l'escargo points out. Bye laws arent just minor rules made by the HM off his own bat - they are laws signed off by the appropriate secretary of state and again permitted by statute. So what you have in effect is one set of laws in which COLREFS has been modified.

None of which absolves the "right of way" boat from reacting to a "give way" boat that isnt giving. And as far as I can see, it also doesnt alter the issue that the racer can still be the give way boat even if you are required not to impede or hinder. Thats entirely parallel with crossing a traffic seperation scheme where you are required not to impede but the big boat coming down the scheme still has to give way to you as a sailboat crossing the scheme.
 
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