Ostend etc - I see threads like this and feel paranoid

For goodness sake, I first crossed the Channel in my Evolution 25. I have lost count of the times I have crossed the estuary. I spent 2 years sailing back and forth with no engine (or electrics sometimes).

I enjoy the radar on FC, but it yet to reach essential on any scale I can think of. It gives me a confirmation of what I know already, and it makes me feel good.
In poor visibility, stay out of TSS's or Big Boys shipping channels. Viz always improves eventually.

After last years encounter with HMS Westminster, which appears to be some sort of stealth craft, I am not entirely certain I pick all traces up anyway.


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The bouys in the area are at 12 o clock and 8 o clock. The Westminster is at 5 o clock, and was a far far smaller trace than the boat half its size at 10 o clock.
Dougie 3 Bottles and me spent quite a while discussing it.

To be honest, I have had more trouble picking up fishing nets, but no one has invented a Fishing Net radar yet, and the fishing boats dont necessarily have AIS.

At under a hundred quid, the AIS engine is good value, but I am not rushing out to buy one.

Besides, I havent room for it on my binnacle, and I am not replacing my JRC1800 until it goes pop.

I am paranoid, because they are out there, I just know it. But I think they are looking for someone else at the moment.

Am I the only one who really enjoys close encounters with shipping? The bearings, the transits, calculating the relative speeds and distances in your head?

The terror of a LOUD fog horn, just somewhere out of sight?

No, forget that last remark, it counters my rosy argument. Tee hee.
 
Hi Roger

I have both AIS and radar (not combined) radar excellent for poor vis as you can pick out the dry bits as well as cardinals other boats etc.

AIS is very good taking a lot of guess work out of which ships are a danger. Only fitted is shortly before Oostende trip last year found it really helpful but would be happy to do without it but not the Radar which we have only used in anger once but it was for four hours on a trip from chatam to the crouch where AIS would have been of no value at all.
 
You don't really need it.... i've got radar, and its been useful once in the last 4 years.... and even then there would have been easy options to be safe without it.....

I'd like AIS, but its well down my list of priorities.....

Crossing to Holland without either is perfectly OK... i've done it a good few times, and never once even switched my radar on.....
 
I think I would feel exposed out at sea with AIS but no radar. On the other hand, I've crossed oodles of times without either, but SWMBO & I are much happier these days with radar, which we used in anger again this year on the way to Den Helder in fog between 9pm & midnight. Very relaxing, knowing that there's nothing within, say, six miles. In good weather, with a good lookout, I see no reason why anyone should feel ashamed of setting off without radar, but I think I'm getting too old for that game.
 
The good ship Beyond Reason has no radar. No AIS. No SeeMe or 'proper' radar reflector, just the bird feeder type.

I do have a foghorn. And a gps, and an echo sounder and a handheld chartplotter.

I'm not saying I wouldn't like to have these toys, but if I waited till I could afford all the things I'd like to have on my boat I'd never go sailing.

If caught in the fog, I try to stay in the shallow stuff and play close attention to VHF transmissions. But that's not very useful if the fog comes down when you're in the middle of the TSS.

I'm not saying that it would never happen, but you've probably got a better chance of winning the lottery than getting run down by a ship in the fog.
 
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you've probably got a better chance of winning the lottery than getting run down by a ship in the fog.

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I won't buy tickets for either /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I started sailing in 2000 in the Thames where ship dodging was all part of the fun and it has never bothered me. On the thread I mentioned above the response seemed to be that you'd be crazy not to have all the toys.

Shan't bother - a few more beer tokens saved /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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I think I would feel exposed out at sea with AIS but no radar.[ QUOTE ]


When Big Nick (before he became Moody) lectured me from the dizzy heights of his 10 Channel crossings I kept quiet about celebrating my 100th, since when I've stopped counting!

I have managed, both singlehanded and with crew, minus these modern aids but relying on good lookout, accurate log and thorough navigation, with a range of courtesy flags just in case! Oh, avoiding gales and fog helps too.

Yes, an old cermudgeon indeed.
 
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Is Beancounter short-sighted? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

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What's that young Roger?

A clip in the cockpit for my white stick would be useful; I'm sure my guide dog will be ok tucked up in the saloon somewhere....
 
I'm a great believer in breath powered fog horns or trumpets. I was in a fog for five days once including a whole night becalmed in the middle of a shipping lane that carried the traffic between the Great Lakes and the East Coast [that makes this relevant to the forum] of the US. My radar wasn't working due to some water ingress to the antenna as the result of a knockdown, but the ships which I couldn't see responded quite happily to my pathetic little one long and two short on my fog trumpet with their one extra loud long blast on the fog horn. It was quite comforting to think that they knew I was there. I do carry two of the more highly recommended radar reflectors but no 'see me'. Anyway the point of this long story is that I was glad I didn't have a gas cannister fog horn as it would have run out well before I really needed it, but then I have no idea how long a gas cannister will last when used every two minutes.
 
Coincidentally I see that the latest report from CHIRP circulated with the April Yachting Monthly includes a report from an AIS receiver owner saying that on several occasions the set failed to register clearly visible commercial vessels whilst others were shown as underway at zero knots. Either the set or installation was at fault, but it seems to this, albeit inexperienced sailor, that relying overmuch on electronic wizardry can be hazardous, even when it might be working perfectly. I think my greatest tool is a healthy degree of worry/fear!
Michael
 
Confirmed ....
Westminster is considerably larger than the Cardinal marks around the sighting but the blip on the radar was almost invisible....
It was my first occasion looking at radar and whilst it helped identify distant vessels to be monitored i found eye-ball even at night was more reliable

as Jim says stay out of TSS's and shipping lanes in poor conditions...
 
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Confirmed ....
Westminster is considerably larger than the Cardinal marks around the sighting but the blip on the radar was almost invisible....

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So what's the blip of a Daring class Type 45 going to be like?

Crossed many times in Flipper - no AIS, no radar and just me onboard as lookout etc and had more 'close encounters in local waters (thank you Arco line). Am fitting an AIS courtesy of CPD so will be interested to see how it goes.
 
I too have crossed many times with niether radar or AIS. However last year I did the trip in company, and vis was maybe 2 miles at most. One of our fleet had AIS and was giving us instructions, and it seemed to me that without him we would have had a pretty fraught crossing esp as the SW lane was very busy indeed.
I have acquired an 'AIS Radar' as a result of this - if the assistance of technology is available and affordable then it seems to me worth taking advantage of it, however I may be old but I am not bold and I will still use eyes, ears, and common sense.
 
I find it quite strange how many posts on the subject of electronic 'aids' turn into a report of how much everyone has done without them.
To be honest, I haven't got a long track record of sailing with minimal aids and have every respect for seasoned seafarers of every type that have been through all of that.
However, I would prefer to have Autopilot, GPS, chartplotter, radar (with MARPA), depth sounder etc than not.
We certainly find that getting electronic data about the course and speed of a vessel converging at an oblique angle helps with identifying what is happening.
The main thing here is to remember that these things are all an aid to our basic skillset and not a replacement, which sometimes seems to be the issue.
If having these things helps (and it certainly does when short handed or in tougher conditions) then great.
Ultimately, it is a cost versus benefit decision for most people.
 
Very much agree with you, It is a great deal better today than it was, not the other way round, I have crossed many times both with and without Radar and Marpa and I prefer the Radar and Marpa way at night especially when it is busy and it is difficult to see which way they are heading, the Marpa can be a bit alarming sometimes, when it gives a CPA of a mile or so and then it suddenly changes to 50ft but generally it gives comfort that the situation is alright, in daylight and good vis, you dont need anything but the mk 1 eyeball.
 
Although we don't need any of these things, the point as far as I am concerned is that crossing the sea-lanes should be pleasurable and not a source of needless anxiety. There have been people who would say that to cross the sea without radar is unseamanlike, and I have seen such an opinion printed in sailing mags but am personally miles away from holding that view.

As far as AIS goes, the maxim has to be "know the limits of the technology" even more than with radar, which requires its own skills.
 
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Although we don't need any of these things, the point as far as I am concerned is that crossing the sea-lanes should be pleasurable and not a source of needless anxiety. There have been people who would say that to cross the sea without radar is unseamanlike, and I have seen such an opinion printed in sailing mags but am personally miles away from holding that view.

As far as AIS goes, the maxim has to be "know the limits of the technology" even more than with radar, which requires its own skills.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hear Hear
 
Glad you said that. Been with both Jim and Neil crossing to Ostend and both times it was a relaxing and enjoyable crossing, and even though both are well kitted out boats the sensible approach was adopted every time, rather than being glued to some electronic display. I think Neil coined the phrase very well, when he advised me not to steer by nintendo.
Even though I'm lucky enough to have a chart plotter, I won't know if it's worth buying the other bits for it until I've got it to Guapa for testing, so I'm sticking with the basic set up for a fair while yet. Besides, a radar and all the other stuff would probably look ridiculous on my little boat.
Common sense prevails on the ECF, which is one reason I don't bother with SB these days.
 
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