order of reefing when blowing?

cdogg said:
Not trying to sidetrack the theme, but as a VERY simple rule of thumb for those of us who only have one standard genoa and one main on a 31' Bavaria what would be the order of reefing - just for leisurely cruising?
Thanks
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On our 34 we roll away some genny first (foam luff) and then ease the main until it's backwinding a bit THEN reef the main.

If I'm serious I get into car positions, twist at the top, tracks , kickers, outhauls, back stay tension ... But you did ask for simple.
 
Cdogg,

I know it's easy for me to say, but you REALLY need a means of setting at least a storm jib; can be by a separate stay you can set up on a hard eye on deck ( with as much reinforcing backing pad, consisting of a wood pad & at least stainless penny washers if not a stainless plate as possible ) set up with a hanked jib - and sheet leads pre-determined & tried.

Or there are some storm jibs one can get on a sleeve which goes over the rolled headsail.

In really bad conditions though, you could do well without the windage & weight aloft of a rolled headsail, hence the previous comment about removing & stowing the genoa below if given enough warning.

The Bavaria's are a lot less performance minded than 1960's-70's cruiser racers, so I'd sugect reducing sail equally, but bear in mind the 'slot' where the foresail overlaps the main, still gives a surprisingly large proportion of the sail power & drive.

If you could set up a temporary stay as described and go to a blade headsail working jib ( then if serious a storm jib, top tip if ordering a storm jib get a dayglo one as visibility in bad weather is affected ) rather than rely on reefing the genoa much, you'll get much better windward performance; I'm talking of safety, not as any racing nut !
 
I'm quite prepared to be shot down in flames but I don't agree with you SJ.

The only time I ever see a storm jib is on boats practising in Portsmouth Harbour or occasional sailing schools in The Solent.

Given modern weather forecasting and boat speed I don't really see the need for any cruising boat to need to be out in that sort of weather or even to be caught out in that sort of weather.

We sail most of the season around western UK , Normandy and down as far as La Rochelle

We are rarely further away than, what, 60 miles of a port of refuge and honestly can't remember being in a harbour and seeing a boat leave or arrive with storm sails on deck.

Ducking NOW. :rolleyes:
 
Bav34 said:
Pedant mode. His windward telltales are lifting because he's luffing slightly. :D:D

Nice pic. tho.
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Oooh I see, so its the tell tales that told you he is luffing, I never knew that!
I just liked the actual shape he had in the sails and the way the halyards were not overtightened. The tell tales were looking fairly parallel too.
I have seen respected sail makers with worse trim.
 
cdogg said:
Thank you, That gives me something to work on. I should have known it wouldn't be quite as simple as I'd hoped. I do appreciate the advice.
Cheers
Cdogg
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On my Bavaria I do as Bav34 - couple of rolls in the genoa first - I have just had a foam luff added so it keeps a good shape. I also have in mast main so it is possible to infinitely fine tune sail areas relatively easily.

You will really notice the difference when (if) you replace the original sails.
 
Roll up jibs

Bav34 said:
On our 34 we roll away some genny first (foam luff) and then ease the main until it's backwinding a bit THEN reef the main.

If I'm serious I get into car positions, twist at the top, tracks , kickers, outhauls, back stay tension ... But you did ask for simple.
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I am a bit horrified at the suggestion that adjustment of the jib sheeting cars is just for the purists. I consider this adjustment to be vital to all adjustments of reefing of the roller jib. Obviously further forward for a jib with rolls in. I use individual jibs then am fussy about jib sheeting position from the nominal ideal for each jib.
Any boat that is cruising needs to be set up to absolute optimum for beating into the wind. There is just not enough room for sloppiness in settings when beating. (unless you start the engine). The jib particularly needs to be set in size and sheeting position correctly. With adequate sheet tension. Try to get some friendly racing or at least side by side beating to compare and perfect your windward sailing.
I would say reduce the jib first by a long way before reefing main. You cna easily dump pressure from the main by adding tensions and or just easing mainsheet but the jib tends to be set and not adjusted. So if you are overpowered by a big jib it is not easy to dump the power. good luck olewill
 
I have only used my storm jib once, in 34 years of cruiser sailing.

When we did use it, one Easter in unforecast 55 knot squalls lasting 20 minutes or so, recorded we found later by T.S. Royalist who'd seen us - my crew who'd sailed thousands of miles with me thought we'd had it as every bolt -hole to leeward was a mass of surf, and this was in the Solent...

We did get clobbered by a few big waves and the cockpit filled, but the boat sprang up and carried on.

If we hadn't been able to set a storm jib efficiently, I have no doubt whatsoever I'd have lost my boat, and whether crew and I would have survived is at best dubious.

Seamanship is about planning for the worst, then getting on with enjoying the best.

I was lucky.
 
Will, the poster asked for a very simple rule of thumb. That is what he got. At no time did I say that correct car position was for purists. Of course correct sail trim is important but I see a lot of boats reefing but very rarely see anybody on the side deck moving car positions. They all seem to make progress.

SeaJet. Thanks for your honesty ... once in 34 years doesn't justify inner forestays and so on. I don't think that the average cruising crew would even be able to consider putting up a storm jib in the conditions you describe.

It would be a damn sight more dangerous for my crew up on the foredeck in those conditions than safely back in the cockpit with the genny rolled away and the Volvo on :rolleyes:
 
Quandary said:
If you were looking only for windward performance, (as in racing) you would change to a No2 headsail around 105% on a rig like yours before reefing the already smallish main, .
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I agree. You have the typical 70s sailing plan with overlarge genoa and small main. Problem is you roll in the genny enough and it performs poorly, but the main is small so you have to reef it deeply to reef enough. But unless you are doing long trips its unlikely that any wind you get will be totally unanticipated so an alternative foresail can be mounted before you leave port.
 
Thanks guys - as ever a good selection of differing opinions.

Quandry - thanks for the setting compliments! I used to race dinghys a lot so learnt a few things about sail tuning etc. Just not so familiar with reefing - never had that luxury on a dinghy. Just had to hike harder or find a heavy crew:D

Having a really good set of sails helps too - nothing more frustrating than poor setting sails! Norths did a good job.

Yes i'd like to fin an inner forestay for a heavy weather sail - might have to join the Christmas wish list tho!

Re. reefing order - im going to try a few permutations this spring. Helm Balance is important, so it will be interesting to see how she performs to windward with differing setups.

Those Contessa 32 owners know a thing or two - so will give awol's suggestions a go too.

whole heartedly agree with 'Seaspray' too. When it comes to fresh winds its important the foot of the sail is nice and flat (tight outhaul) and the Halyard/Downhaul is well on. The Vang de-powers a mainsail nicely too. Can all be eased a little when coming off the wind of course
 
When racing this sort of boat in the IOR days we used to switch from the No1 (155% or even 165%) to a No 2 (say around 120% to 130%) then consider our options. If we were beating in a big sea we would go to a NO 3 (100%) and keep the main to help us through the waves.

If the sea was flattish like say in the Solent we would put the first reef in the main then change to the No 3 next. The second reef went in next followed by the 3rd reef then the No 4 went up. If we had a no 5 that got used next or storm jib to get us home depending on where we were and the severity of the sea conditions.

Once we got to the second reef the sail combination was dictated more bu the sea state and our course than wind force.
 
I have a Sadler 29 with a similar sailplan. But I also have a 105% No.3 Genoa with a full length luff and a high clew. It's an absolute godsend once the wind gets up to 20 knots or more. With good forecasts it's usually pretty clear at the start of the day which headsail to set out with.
 
As a rule of thumb the first sail to reef is the one nearest the wind. So genoa going upwind and ease the main to balance the boat, the main if going dowind/reaching. That doesn't apply to a fractional rig, the main is always first.
 
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