Optimistic Pricing ?

Princess 30DS listed a couple of weeks ago with a POA (price on application). A few days later, priced at £49,995!!! 2 days ago dropped to £39,995. Still £10k too much me thinks.

1988 Princess 30DS Flybridge Flybridge for sale - YachtWorld

There is no doubt 'in demand' boats are still fetching high prices and selling very quickly, but I'm noticing more and more 70s/80s/90s boats where the asking price was very optimistic that are now hanging around for weeks and months.

There are a lot of moving parts that have driven boat prices upwards. Difficult to predict what happens next.

Will be interesting to see what happens to that Turbo 36 Old Git mentioned and indeed the market in general this year as some buyers might start to notice they have less money in their pocket.
 
That's a pretty rare shaft drive twin TAMD 41 200hp diesels with a flybridge, it's a far cry from the usual deck saloon (non-flybridge) and a pair of 140hp petrols on outdrives you normally find on a Princess 30DS. Also looks to be in good order with a few quid spent on upholstery etc.

Does that make it worth £40K? Hard to say, but I wouldn't fall off my chair in shock if someone paid that for it.

Worth bearing in mind you can spend that much on a new VW Golf these days, £40K is not a huge amount of money nowadays.
 
Just my view based on Spanish holiday homes during the property crash.
People who bought at the peak of the market seem to be reluctant to accept the facts, when the boom is over, that their asset has devalued. The consequence is that they don’t sell and just hold on, so my prediction FWIW is that boat prices will remain high for quite some time, maybe a couple of years.
With high employment levels I don’t see significant distress sales kicking in.
 
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DavidJ said:
Just my view based on Spanish holiday homes during the property crash.
People who bought at the peak of the market seem to be reluctant to accept the facts, when the boom is over, that their asset has devalued. The consequence is that they don’t sell and just hold on so my prediction FWIW is that boat prices will remain high for quite some time, maybe a couple of years.
With high employment levels I don’t see significant distress sales kicking in.
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I think at the lower end..... Speed boats, Ribs etc say at the £5,000 - £15,000 bracket people will possibly want to sell and swallow the loss. Once many find out that Boating is not actually for them or they have scared the family one time too many and they refuse to go anywhere near the boat
 
DavidJ said:
Just my view based on Spanish holiday homes during the property crash.
People who bought at the peak of the market seem to be reluctant to accept the facts, when the boom is over, that their asset has devalued. The consequence is that they don’t sell and just hold on, so my prediction FWIW is that boat prices will remain high for quite some time, maybe a couple of years.
With high employment levels I don’t see significant distress sales kicking in.
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Even when money becomes scarce many will be trapped in negative equity and will have no option but to retain the boat.
I have seen owners hold on until bankrupted as they have to pay monthly mortgages , they have to meet the monthly payment as they cannot raise the shortfall following a forced sale.
 
DAKA said:
Even when money becomes scarce many will be trapped in negative equity and will have no option but to retain the boat.
I have seen owners hold on until bankrupted as they have to pay monthly mortgages , they have to meet the monthly payment as they cannot raise the shortfall following a forced sale.
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For 'many' to be trapped in negative equity, you're making a pretty big assumption that many boats were bought very recently by people who borrowed 'up to the hilt', and that prices will drop significantly, and that they want to sell (if they don't, it makes no difference anyway).

I suspect the reality is that lots of people pay cash or borrow sensibly, and many more have owned their boats for a few years (so even if they had borrowed 'to the hilt', they'll have paid a good chunk of that off by now).

In reality, I doubt negative equity will affect 'many', a few maybe who borrowed hard and bought very recently, IF prices do indeed drop.
 
ari said:
For 'many' to be trapped in negative equity, you're making a pretty big assumption that many boats were bought very recently by people who borrowed 'up to the hilt', and that prices will drop significantly, and that they want to sell (if they don't, it makes no difference anyway).

I suspect the reality is that lots of people pay cash or borrow sensibly, and many more have owned their boats for a few years (so even if they had borrowed 'to the hilt', they'll have paid a good chunk of that off by now).

In reality, I doubt negative equity will affect 'many', a few maybe who borrowed hard and bought very recently, IF prices do indeed drop.
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Reckon a lot of that money was not borrowed or remortgaging, but folding lying around under certain section of the populations mattress , then along a came a Coviden reappraisal of what in life was important.
Personally suspect distress sales will not be happening anytime soon.
Not for me or scared myself stiff, sales, perhaps?

"Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light" .
.......and buy a boat or that most pointless of things a motor home. ?
 
oldgit said:
....... or that most pointless of things a motor home. ?
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I do get the interest in motorhomes and may well get one some day . There are some parallels with boating and a motorhome is going to be a lot cheaper especially if it can be parked at home. Not sure why but auto gearboxes in motorhomes seem rare.
It would be no good if everyone wanted the same thing.
However at present the boat is the more preferable option.
 
MartynG said:
I do get the interest in motorhomes and may well get one some day . There are some parallels with boating and a motorhome is going to be a lot cheaper especially if it can be parked at home. Not sure why but auto gearboxes in motorhomes seem rare.
It would be no good if everyone wanted the same thing.
However at present the boat is the more preferable option.
Click to expand...

With a motor home not only can you sit in all the congestion on the UK roads ,you can actually cause it up some tiny country lane in the vain attempt to get away from it all with the other 20 motorhomes on the same remote isolated campsite miles way from it all. :)
 
DAKA said:
Just my view based on Spanish holiday homes during the property crash.
People who bought at the peak of the market seem to be reluctant to accept the facts, when the boom is over, that their asset has devalued. The consequence is that they don’t sell and just hold on, so my prediction FWIW is that boat prices will remain high for quite some time, maybe a couple of years.
Click to expand...

Still there is a lot of difference between real estate and boats. You can ride out a asset devaluation in real estate even for a long time while this is not possible with boats. Try to hold on to your new Navetta 50 for 10 years (even storing it properly under cover etc) and it will still depreciate 75% of his initial price. While real estate (unless you bought at folly prices without due diligence etc) does tend to bottom out and even rebound some time - or just raise in value. I made deals where the land prices appreciated so much in 10 years that the value the home was on it was negligible.

The "high price" is IMO due to few new boats sold in the last years and the covid scare (which will be forgotten soon). Also the fact that you can advertise im Internet so easily result in the "true deals" (like someone selling for old age and not really interested in sitting out for 3 years before selling) getting swiped very quickly. What is left is the crazy prices, on mondialbroker which caters to Italy you literally see the same ones again and again.

To get decent prices again we need the bubble to pop like it did 2008 to bring more boats on the market and less people wanting to take the plunge. Luckily some signs are already there, people are buying NFTs which are even more crap than bitcoins and this is a classic "tulip craze" end stage sign.

So in short bad times to buy used boats and even worse if you want to buy new.
 
ari said:
If you could point me to a 2012 dry stored Navetta 50 for 25% of its original 2012 selling price, I'd appreciate it. :)
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I can't sorry I bought it already ! ;)

And it the actual situation I guess a 10 years unused new boat would probably fetch a decent price, it was not like this 6-7 years ago. But you are right 75% is a bit too much.
 
Hiya OG

Burton Waters just listed this:
Princess 45 Flybridge 8209200 – Burton Waters Boat Sales

Might be a bit big for you, and has TAMD75 lumps which I know you wanted to avoid but might be worth a look... quality boat, and in the UK. Covid pricing premium I'd say at about 25-30k + on the asking price compared to two years ago....

No connection with me.
 
oldgit said:
With a motor home not only can you sit in all the congestion on the UK roads ,you can actually cause it up some tiny country lane in the vain attempt to get away from it all with the other 20 motorhomes on the same remote isolated campsite miles way from it all. :)
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I am sure there are limitations. I am less keen on driving than I used to be.
But also there are advantages.
A lot less fuel used for one.
A wider choice of destinations and less weather dependency are potential advantages . Including travel abroad . I think the trick is not to go too big . Something to do when the chief officer can no longer manage the ropes.
 
prinex said:
To get decent prices again we need the bubble to pop like it did 2008 to bring more boats on the market and less people wanting to take the plunge. Luckily some signs are already there, people are buying NFTs which are even more crap than bitcoins and this is a classic "tulip craze" end stage sign.
Click to expand...
(y) (y) (y)
 
MartynG said:
I do get the interest in motorhomes and may well get one some day . There are some parallels with boating and a motorhome is going to be a lot cheaper especially if it can be parked at home. Not sure why but auto gearboxes in motorhomes seem rare.
It would be no good if everyone wanted the same thing.
However at present the boat is the more preferable option.
Click to expand...

We just bought a Nice Little Auto Sleepers Nuevo Motor Home. Quite Pleased with it we are. Not too big but will do what you want. Ours it a bit more modern than this one inside and ours has a tow bar to tow a boat :)

 
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prinex said:
The "high price" is IMO due to few new boats sold in the last years and the covid scare (which will be forgotten soon). Also the fact that you can advertise im Internet so easily result in the "true deals" (like someone selling for old age and not really interested in sitting out for 3 years before selling) getting swiped very quickly. What is left is the crazy prices, on mondialbroker which caters to Italy you literally see the same ones again and again.
To get decent prices again we need the bubble to pop like it did 2008 to bring more boats on the market and less people wanting to take the plunge. Luckily some signs are already there, people are buying NFTs which are even more crap than bitcoins and this is a classic "tulip craze" end stage sign.
So in short bad times to buy used boats and even worse if you want to buy new.
Click to expand...
Most Italian brokers tend to leave boats for sale on MB, and even if you report it, it want be removed very easily.
I had to write a letter from a lawyer for a Broker to remove a boat I sold, as an example.

While I agree that some old boats are going super positive prices and they never have that value, there is a big difference from today and 2008. New boats are still selling very little in the EU in general.
And while new boat sales have improved (Italian was by the largest thanks to the leasing in those times and it kept on going well till about 2010/11), the bubble might not affective as much this time around.

It is also true that the crash from 2010 to 15 was pretty substantial, and some boats where selling to cheap.
I think it will be more a period of normality and standardization of prices to pre-Covid levels, then really an exploding level.
In the UK the price interest might hold a bit more because with Brexit and all the market is stuck to itself and the boats there is.
 
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